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I know lots of people who are quite poor and are also very invested in the human rights of Palestinians. I know lots of people who are quite poor and very inter

I know lots of people who are quite poor and are also very invested in the human rights of Palestinians. I know lots of people who are quite poor and very interested in reining in police violence. Your opinions and experiences aren't universal.

mrangle 3y ago
They aren't speaking about protest in the interest of the human rights of Palestinians. See the fact that protestors aren't suggesting that Hamas give themselves up as a means of protecting the lives of their Palestinian human shields. Protestors want October 7th and no consequences, or limited consequences on the terms of those who would see the perpetrators keep power. Specifically, to be able to slaughter masses of civilians and then run behind their human shields with impunity and forever. Human shields that should move as far South as possible. Human shields who widely support Hamas and their actions. Hamas has the ability to end all of this in this very hour, should they care enough about the Palestinians. They only need to give up. Protestors have the ability to demand that Hamas end this conflict in this very hour, should they actually first care about Palestinians and not the continuity of War. All Hamas has to do is give themselves up. Or at least move camp to an area that is away from the civilians. Hamas won't, and neither will their "pro-Palestinian" supporters demand it. Which is a primary problem with ostensible "pro-Palestinian protest" in the context of the current conflict. Terrorists can't slaughter 1300+ civilians, declaring civilians combatants, and then credibly declare the deaths of their specific human shields to be a human rights issue that is the responsibility of their enemies. Unless they are in the process of giving up. The same paradigm applies to the nature of their support. The deaths of Palestinians are a Human rights issue. But the cause and responsibility is on Hamas and its support. They can give up in this very hour. Or simply move camp. Anything else is an ongoing illustration of their deceit that doesn't care an ounce for Palestinian Life.
- tech_ken 3y ago
  Not all protests exist to further concrete political proposals (ex. suggestions to Hamas). Expressions of mass grief, community solidarity, and elevation of an issue which harms your neighbors are all important outcomes for people meeting en masse. You're welcome to impute whatever motives you want onto people you disagree with, but that doesn't mean you actually understand.
  - mrangle 3y ago
    And the lying about the nature of "Palestinian support" continues. In spite of the protest-wide evidence at virtually every demonstration.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - tech_ken 3y ago
      I suppose if I equate “retributive genocide” and “just consequences” then I can see where you’re coming from. The US made similar statements as they poured white phosphorus on Afghani children after 9/11 and I thought it was a thin argument then. I don’t find it much more convincing now. Overall I try not to lie, but given how different our experiences seem to be I’m not sure if there’s much I can say on the internet to convince you of that. Have a good one!
      - mrangle 3y ago
        Will you state that Hamas should give up as a means of ending the conflict? To test your moral and semantic consistency. Your "retributive genocide" label doesn't hold if the conflict ends as soon as Hamas is eleminated, which it would. And which they can effect in this instant by giving up. Not that people are obligated to or widely accepting of the morally and logically inconsistent labels of Hamas supporters. Hamas who began this conflict with a massive war crime. Your straw man attempt is unskilled and indicative of your weak position. You lie a lot. To yourself and to your readers. I never said "just consequences". You won't launder Hamas propaganda through this conversation. Every innocent death is an injustice on the head of Hamas and its supporters: many being Palestinian. Hamas can give up in this hour. Or better yet they can invent a time machine, return to October 6th, and cancel their plan for the massive war crime that started this. The penalty for which, and which would save the most Palestinian lives, is Hamas giving up in the nearest possible moment. They could have given up immediately in order to save the most possible Palestinian lives. Or moved out from behind their human shields, immediately. They didn't. Every moment that they do not is for the continuity of their war at the calculated expense of Palestinian civilian lives. Let's see a single pro Palestine protest whose primary message is toward that single most effective goal. inbfre your not so covert Hamas support and October 7th justifications.
- archagon 3y ago
  Protesting Hamas will do fuck all. Protesting military action might actually save some lives.

mrangle 3y ago

They aren't speaking about protest in the interest of the human rights of Palestinians. See the fact that protestors aren't suggesting that Hamas give themselves up as a means of protecting the lives of their Palestinian human shields. Protestors want October 7th and no consequences, or limited consequences on the terms of those who would see the perpetrators keep power. Specifically, to be able to slaughter masses of civilians and then run behind their human shields with impunity and forever. Human shields that should move as far South as possible. Human shields who widely support Hamas and their actions. Hamas has the ability to end all of this in this very hour, should they care enough about the Palestinians. They only need to give up. Protestors have the ability to demand that Hamas end this conflict in this very hour, should they actually first care about Palestinians and not the continuity of War. All Hamas has to do is give themselves up. Or at least move camp to an area that is away from the civilians. Hamas won't, and neither will their "pro-Palestinian" supporters demand it. Which is a primary problem with ostensible "pro-Palestinian protest" in the context of the current conflict. Terrorists can't slaughter 1300+ civilians, declaring civilians combatants, and then credibly declare the deaths of their specific human shields to be a human rights issue that is the responsibility of their enemies. Unless they are in the process of giving up. The same paradigm applies to the nature of their support. The deaths of Palestinians are a Human rights issue. But the cause and responsibility is on Hamas and its support. They can give up in this very hour. Or simply move camp. Anything else is an ongoing illustration of their deceit that doesn't care an ounce for Palestinian Life.

tech_ken 3y ago
Not all protests exist to further concrete political proposals (ex. suggestions to Hamas). Expressions of mass grief, community solidarity, and elevation of an issue which harms your neighbors are all important outcomes for people meeting en masse. You're welcome to impute whatever motives you want onto people you disagree with, but that doesn't mean you actually understand.
- mrangle 3y ago
  And the lying about the nature of "Palestinian support" continues. In spite of the protest-wide evidence at virtually every demonstration.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - tech_ken 3y ago
    I suppose if I equate “retributive genocide” and “just consequences” then I can see where you’re coming from. The US made similar statements as they poured white phosphorus on Afghani children after 9/11 and I thought it was a thin argument then. I don’t find it much more convincing now. Overall I try not to lie, but given how different our experiences seem to be I’m not sure if there’s much I can say on the internet to convince you of that. Have a good one!
    - mrangle 3y ago
      Will you state that Hamas should give up as a means of ending the conflict? To test your moral and semantic consistency. Your "retributive genocide" label doesn't hold if the conflict ends as soon as Hamas is eleminated, which it would. And which they can effect in this instant by giving up. Not that people are obligated to or widely accepting of the morally and logically inconsistent labels of Hamas supporters. Hamas who began this conflict with a massive war crime. Your straw man attempt is unskilled and indicative of your weak position. You lie a lot. To yourself and to your readers. I never said "just consequences". You won't launder Hamas propaganda through this conversation. Every innocent death is an injustice on the head of Hamas and its supporters: many being Palestinian. Hamas can give up in this hour. Or better yet they can invent a time machine, return to October 6th, and cancel their plan for the massive war crime that started this. The penalty for which, and which would save the most Palestinian lives, is Hamas giving up in the nearest possible moment. They could have given up immediately in order to save the most possible Palestinian lives. Or moved out from behind their human shields, immediately. They didn't. Every moment that they do not is for the continuity of their war at the calculated expense of Palestinian civilian lives. Let's see a single pro Palestine protest whose primary message is toward that single most effective goal. inbfre your not so covert Hamas support and October 7th justifications.
archagon 3y ago
Protesting Hamas will do fuck all. Protesting military action might actually save some lives.