4 ms·

Seems like the workers are happy with the status quo (no doubt due to the insane rally in the stock in the last few years) > They also appreciated the fact tha

Seems like the workers are happy with the status quo (no doubt due to the insane rally in the stock in the last few years) > They also appreciated the fact that they were issued stock options from the company, some of whom have reportedly seen an increase of several hundred percent to date. What is interesting is that IF Metall and the Tesla workers in Sweden had actually met several times in the past. The employees, however, were reportedly unimpressed with what the union was offering.

progne 3y ago
So there's effectively a bidding war between the union and the company, and in this case the company won? To the extent that the union is about helping the employees the union just won too.
diggan 3y ago
It's a bit worrisome that people tie in the "I'm getting stocks" benefit with "I don't need the union". There is no reason for people to not getting stock options just because they're part of the union, but someone they Tesla employees seems to be under that impression? Why?
- wpasc 3y ago
  Perhaps because the workers feel that their work benefits and compensation as negotiated with Tesla directly are good and would not benefit from introducing the union into that negotiation? You may disagree but it’s not like it’s a completely inconceivable notion (in my opinion)
  - diggan 3y ago
    Another not completely inconceivable notion is that Tesla threatened to remove the possibility of getting stock options if the employee participated in any strikes (as reported by SVT https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/orebro/facket-strejkande-pa-tesla-hotas-med-uppsagning--8q1cof https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/orebro/facket-strejkande-p...), so people feel like it's better for their own interest not to participate in any strikes, as you might lose your job/stock options. Not a lot of room for negotiating in that case.
- nordsieck 3y ago
  It may be more that they believe that a union at Tesla would make the stock options they already own less valuable.
- QuarterReptile 3y ago
  The union may start as an organization that serves the workers who pay it, but will eventually, as with all bureaucracies, morph into an organization whose function is to protect and enrich itself and the people operating it. It also adds another layer of management between the workers and those paying them. Those are both things that you should want to avoid, and if the company is treating people well, they probably don't see a compelling need to spite themselves by enacting extra management layers and costs. A workforce that thinks a union is dumb (sans campaigning) is the ideal state of workforce.
  - diggan 3y ago
    Your comment might apply for unions elsewhere (maybe even specifically the US), but the situation on the ground in Sweden is very different, and it seems you might be missing the context that this is happening in Sweden. > A workforce that thinks a union is dumb (sans campaigning) is the ideal state of workforce. So about 70% of the workforce is Sweden is not "in ideal state" according to you, as about 70% is part of a union?
    - QuarterReptile 3y ago
      >So about 70% of the workforce is Sweden is not "in ideal state" according to you, as about 70% is part of a union? Probably. I'm not sure why that would seem far-fetched. But, like you said, my comment is based on a US American understanding of unions, and Sweden may be different enough for this story to have other interesting dimensions.
      - fl7305 3y ago
        From my somewhat limited perspective, unions in the US and in Sweden are two completely different things. I've heard some horror stories in Sweden about small local unions that act like the US ones, but that's pretty rare. Sweden has a system that is based mainly on negotiations between the employers and the unions. This has worked fairly well for 90 years now. When the big Swedish companies like Volvo, Ericsson, Skanska, SAAB etc have to make drastic cuts, this is normally done with the union on board and few strikes.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  > There is no reason for people to not getting stock options just because they're part of the union Stock based compensation is not allowed for UAW so yes, they are very much under that impression because it literally true. This does not apply for other potential countries of course, but at least in the US and Canada this isn't gone happen.
  - throwaway-blaze 3y ago
    You mean it's not allowed _by_ UAW. It's allowed by law but the union refuses to put a provision allowing it into their "master contract" which is agreed to by the companies.
    - panick21_ 3y ago
      Yes so effectively its not possible right now unless massive changes happen at UAW.

progne 3y ago

So there's effectively a bidding war between the union and the company, and in this case the company won? To the extent that the union is about helping the employees the union just won too.

diggan 3y ago

It's a bit worrisome that people tie in the "I'm getting stocks" benefit with "I don't need the union". There is no reason for people to not getting stock options just because they're part of the union, but someone they Tesla employees seems to be under that impression? Why?

wpasc 3y ago
Perhaps because the workers feel that their work benefits and compensation as negotiated with Tesla directly are good and would not benefit from introducing the union into that negotiation? You may disagree but it’s not like it’s a completely inconceivable notion (in my opinion)
- diggan 3y ago
  Another not completely inconceivable notion is that Tesla threatened to remove the possibility of getting stock options if the employee participated in any strikes (as reported by SVT https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/orebro/facket-strejkande-pa-tesla-hotas-med-uppsagning--8q1cof https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/orebro/facket-strejkande-p...), so people feel like it's better for their own interest not to participate in any strikes, as you might lose your job/stock options. Not a lot of room for negotiating in that case.
nordsieck 3y ago
It may be more that they believe that a union at Tesla would make the stock options they already own less valuable.
QuarterReptile 3y ago
The union may start as an organization that serves the workers who pay it, but will eventually, as with all bureaucracies, morph into an organization whose function is to protect and enrich itself and the people operating it. It also adds another layer of management between the workers and those paying them. Those are both things that you should want to avoid, and if the company is treating people well, they probably don't see a compelling need to spite themselves by enacting extra management layers and costs. A workforce that thinks a union is dumb (sans campaigning) is the ideal state of workforce.
- diggan 3y ago
  Your comment might apply for unions elsewhere (maybe even specifically the US), but the situation on the ground in Sweden is very different, and it seems you might be missing the context that this is happening in Sweden. > A workforce that thinks a union is dumb (sans campaigning) is the ideal state of workforce. So about 70% of the workforce is Sweden is not "in ideal state" according to you, as about 70% is part of a union?
  - QuarterReptile 3y ago
    >So about 70% of the workforce is Sweden is not "in ideal state" according to you, as about 70% is part of a union? Probably. I'm not sure why that would seem far-fetched. But, like you said, my comment is based on a US American understanding of unions, and Sweden may be different enough for this story to have other interesting dimensions.
    - fl7305 3y ago
      From my somewhat limited perspective, unions in the US and in Sweden are two completely different things. I've heard some horror stories in Sweden about small local unions that act like the US ones, but that's pretty rare. Sweden has a system that is based mainly on negotiations between the employers and the unions. This has worked fairly well for 90 years now. When the big Swedish companies like Volvo, Ericsson, Skanska, SAAB etc have to make drastic cuts, this is normally done with the union on board and few strikes.
panick21_ 3y ago
> There is no reason for people to not getting stock options just because they're part of the union Stock based compensation is not allowed for UAW so yes, they are very much under that impression because it literally true. This does not apply for other potential countries of course, but at least in the US and Canada this isn't gone happen.
- throwaway-blaze 3y ago
  You mean it's not allowed _by_ UAW. It's allowed by law but the union refuses to put a provision allowing it into their "master contract" which is agreed to by the companies.
  - panick21_ 3y ago
    Yes so effectively its not possible right now unless massive changes happen at UAW.