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> At least hormone induced changes are fairly reversible. The article talks about youth transitioning. Can't hormone treatment during the early years have last

> At least hormone induced changes are fairly reversible. The article talks about youth transitioning. Can't hormone treatment during the early years have lasting, permanent effects?

nicoburns 3y ago
> Can't hormone treatment during the early years have lasting, permanent effects? It can, although the GP's assertion that this is more reversible than knee surgery is probably still true.
lowmagnet 3y ago
Children with hormonal diseases (like precocious puberty) have to take puberty blockers and they have no lasting effect. They just stop the onset of secondary sex characteristics until a more appropriate age. (remember: those hormones control all sorts of changes, including sometimes-painful growth spurts)
- bitshiftfaced 3y ago
  > They just stop the onset of secondary sex characteristics until a more appropriate age. At which point if they still did take puberty blockers at this more appropriate (critical?) age, wouldn't there be permanent effects?
  - falcolas 3y ago
    Transitioning as a child is a series of steps. It starts with social transitioning below age 10. Puberty blockers from around 10 to 15. Hormone treatments from 15 onward. Some opt to continue to top/bottom surgery, usually after the age of 17 (with a parent's consent if under 18). And no. Puberty blockers are well understood (been using for over 50 years), and their use restricted to timeframes where it won't impact the child's development.
    - bitshiftfaced 3y ago
      Just so I understand, you're making the claim that you can put a child on puberty blockers / hormone treatments from age 10 to 17, and then you can take them off of it and they will resume their sex-at-birth biological development the same as their peers who didn't have hormone treatment, with no permanent effects? Is that right?
      - dbsights 3y ago
        There's some crazy stat, that 98% of kids put on puberty blockers continue to cross-sex hormones. Which clearly tell you, whatever the puberty blockers are for, its not temporary and its not 'time to think'... https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(22)00254-1/fulltext#%20 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4...
        falcolas 3y ago
        Do you not believe that 5-8 years is enough time for a child to think about whether they want their bodies to look like how their minds already feel?
        dbsights 3y ago
        Its also enough time for them to accept their body the way it is. Yet that doesn't appear to be what ever happens, why? Prior estimates were 90% would desist.. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.632784/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.6327...
        trinn 3y ago
        According to the Cass Review, even social transition isn't a neutral act but should be considered an active intervention, which could lock in what may be a temporary phase of identity development, and make it more difficult for the patient to accept their body as it is. https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/0...

> At least hormone induced changes are fairly reversible. The article talks about youth transitioning. Can't hormone treatment during the early years have lasting, permanent effects?

nicoburns 3y ago

> Can't hormone treatment during the early years have lasting, permanent effects? It can, although the GP's assertion that this is more reversible than knee surgery is probably still true.

lowmagnet 3y ago

Children with hormonal diseases (like precocious puberty) have to take puberty blockers and they have no lasting effect. They just stop the onset of secondary sex characteristics until a more appropriate age. (remember: those hormones control all sorts of changes, including sometimes-painful growth spurts)

bitshiftfaced 3y ago
> They just stop the onset of secondary sex characteristics until a more appropriate age. At which point if they still did take puberty blockers at this more appropriate (critical?) age, wouldn't there be permanent effects?
- falcolas 3y ago
  Transitioning as a child is a series of steps. It starts with social transitioning below age 10. Puberty blockers from around 10 to 15. Hormone treatments from 15 onward. Some opt to continue to top/bottom surgery, usually after the age of 17 (with a parent's consent if under 18). And no. Puberty blockers are well understood (been using for over 50 years), and their use restricted to timeframes where it won't impact the child's development.
  - bitshiftfaced 3y ago
    Just so I understand, you're making the claim that you can put a child on puberty blockers / hormone treatments from age 10 to 17, and then you can take them off of it and they will resume their sex-at-birth biological development the same as their peers who didn't have hormone treatment, with no permanent effects? Is that right?
    - dbsights 3y ago
      There's some crazy stat, that 98% of kids put on puberty blockers continue to cross-sex hormones. Which clearly tell you, whatever the puberty blockers are for, its not temporary and its not 'time to think'... https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(22)00254-1/fulltext#%20 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4...
      - falcolas 3y ago
        Do you not believe that 5-8 years is enough time for a child to think about whether they want their bodies to look like how their minds already feel?
        dbsights 3y ago
        Its also enough time for them to accept their body the way it is. Yet that doesn't appear to be what ever happens, why? Prior estimates were 90% would desist.. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.632784/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.6327...
      - trinn 3y ago
        According to the Cass Review, even social transition isn't a neutral act but should be considered an active intervention, which could lock in what may be a temporary phase of identity development, and make it more difficult for the patient to accept their body as it is. https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/0...