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For me, nothing worked and I lost them. It carved a canyon in my heart. Me and friends spent many months trying different things. What was apparent is that part

For me, nothing worked and I lost them. It carved a canyon in my heart. Me and friends spent many months trying different things. What was apparent is that participation is necessary. If they don't want to be helped they basically can't be helped. Some people got basically isolated because they were too forceful. At that point what seemed key for me was to keep trust so I could intervene in the last minute, and so they don't shut you out. Be proactive in the critical time. If you want to intervene, know exactly what you're going to do, who to call, have a plan. I think it might be better to get someone put in a ward than to lose them, even if you're blowing up their life in the process. It was a question I mauled over for days. If they're planning to leave, I felt that they should consider walking away from the things causing them pain. You can make a living being a surf lifesaver or a forest warden or collecting unemployment. If they're planning to leave, and, as I would speculate, they've tried nothing, maybe you can get them to try some stuff if they can lean on you as a fallback? You may as well quit your work and skydive or hike or travel or do whatever if you're going to end it, and some people have life changing experiences doing those things? Cognitive behavior therapy is apparently surprisingly effective to engage with people who are interested in changing and recognize there is a problem. If things are looking desperate maybe something insane and mind altering like microdosing ketamine or LSD or something, as these actually do change people a bit. If there's nothing to be lost, I'd try it. I don't have any answers or advice. Good luck.

superchroma 3y ago
There were some observations in this thread that was posted here a week ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37994348 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37994348 Maybe it's true, maybe not, but he did work in psychotherapy and they're something to consider. One other note that I have is that I get wary about people who say "just listen; people want to be heard", as this was not sufficient in my case, but I acknowledge that every case is different.
- Quinzel 3y ago
  The feminists in my forensic psychology course would have absolutely roasted that guy and his “ugly truths” post. I don’t consider myself to be a feminist, but I thought some of his “ugly truths” were out dated and I thought the appeal to gendered stereotypes was pathetic, especially coming from someone who claims to have authority in the field of psychology.
  - superchroma 3y ago
    I'm sure they would. I think there are points worth considering at least in there. If the only takeaway is that you need to talk to different people differently then that is valuable. This guy has seen many people and couples and I have not so it was interesting to see his observations, even if they may not hold water.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Agreed, listening is important step, but was not a solution in my case either.
l33tbro 3y ago
Sorry you lost this person. Super awful and I'm very sorry you are internalizing blame. In terms of a plan for my buddy... God I just don't have a clue. My friend is losing his wife/kids and likely moving back in with his folks. He's pretty medicated and has, in my unprofessional assessment, a high degree of learned helplessness from years of unemployment and doctors trying to sort him out. He loves art, science, and culture (which we connect on), but I don't feel like sitting around and shooting the shit about post-war American art is going to help him. Nor do I think a 'wake the fuck up or else' is called for. But in the right context, maybe it is? All I know is his mental health is going to plummet when he loses his identity of being an active father and husband. He barely moves all day as it is, but moving back home I think will break him. Suicidal ideation weirdly isn't what I fear (even though it is very possible). It is more becoming a perma-zombie and vanishing into this abyss that has emerged. He really is in decline.

superchroma 3y ago

There were some observations in this thread that was posted here a week ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37994348 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37994348 Maybe it's true, maybe not, but he did work in psychotherapy and they're something to consider. One other note that I have is that I get wary about people who say "just listen; people want to be heard", as this was not sufficient in my case, but I acknowledge that every case is different.

Quinzel 3y ago
The feminists in my forensic psychology course would have absolutely roasted that guy and his “ugly truths” post. I don’t consider myself to be a feminist, but I thought some of his “ugly truths” were out dated and I thought the appeal to gendered stereotypes was pathetic, especially coming from someone who claims to have authority in the field of psychology.
- superchroma 3y ago
  I'm sure they would. I think there are points worth considering at least in there. If the only takeaway is that you need to talk to different people differently then that is valuable. This guy has seen many people and couples and I have not so it was interesting to see his observations, even if they may not hold water.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
Agreed, listening is important step, but was not a solution in my case either.

l33tbro 3y ago

Sorry you lost this person. Super awful and I'm very sorry you are internalizing blame. In terms of a plan for my buddy... God I just don't have a clue. My friend is losing his wife/kids and likely moving back in with his folks. He's pretty medicated and has, in my unprofessional assessment, a high degree of learned helplessness from years of unemployment and doctors trying to sort him out. He loves art, science, and culture (which we connect on), but I don't feel like sitting around and shooting the shit about post-war American art is going to help him. Nor do I think a 'wake the fuck up or else' is called for. But in the right context, maybe it is? All I know is his mental health is going to plummet when he loses his identity of being an active father and husband. He barely moves all day as it is, but moving back home I think will break him. Suicidal ideation weirdly isn't what I fear (even though it is very possible). It is more becoming a perma-zombie and vanishing into this abyss that has emerged. He really is in decline.