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What negative consequences would you propose? Isn't firing enough just like for every other job?

johnnyanmac 3y ago
The article highlights some at the end for exploration (I also left a summary on another reply if you want a TLDR). But to tread new ground: not really. Firing is scary for a regular employee because they need to work to live, pay off debts, potentially care for family, and more. Many can't just take off a year without these finances without losing some of these factors. For many still, even a few months of no income can have heavy impacts, especially if we step outside our HN tech bubble. A quick google tells me that the median CEO makes 20 million a year. they really don't need to work a day in their lives after a mere year or 2 of work. All the above financial factors simply aren't a thing unless their quality of life is insanely lavish (like, a full time crew managing a yatch lavish). What's more, their severance is again, usually in the millions. they get rewarded for failing more money than your average worker will make in their career. I don't have an answer (none of the answers in the article are particularly good), but we can start by snipping those parachutes out of contracts. Severance's goal is to minimize financial impact to employees when a company downsizes. your average CEO does not have financial impact that a middle class worker would take any sympathies toward.
- boeingUH60 3y ago
  > A quick google tells me that the median CEO makes 20 million a year. What a damn lie. The median CEO pay in the USA is $189,520, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics [1]. $20 million is median pay for CEOs of S&P 500 companies, the biggest companies in the country…I wonder why people let themselves get suckered by clickbait. 1- https://www.bls.gov/ooh/management/top-executives.htm#:~:text=%2498%2C100-,The%20median%20annual%20wage%20for%20chief%20executives%20was%20%24189%2C520%20in,percent%20earned%20more%20than%20%24239%2C200 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/management/top-executives.htm#:~:tex....
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    Point taken, but I think your link takes the "top executive" too much in the other direction. Mentioning that the median top executive in the government sector (which would be what, the president? Senate?) being $120k in 2022 makes me think that that title isn't quite what people think of, similar to being a "vice president" of a bank. to come at a comprimise instead of calling everyone liars over statistics with differing definitions: Salary.com lists a median of $830k. Not quite "retire in 2 years" money, but well past middle class and more than enough to establish your own safety net. My main point doesn't change here. https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/chief-executive-officer-salary https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/chief-execu...
- vladms 3y ago
  Yet, many CEO-s seem to be appearing again and again (even bad ones as others pointed out). I do not know many, but the few CEO-s I have personally interacted with seem completely driven by the wish to succeed, having some form of lacking empathy, being very optimistic and being a bit charismatic. With such traits potential punishments will not work great (they will just think "it will never happen to me"), hence it is why I think rewards are used more, but mostly as a form of measuring "success". After couple of millions it is not really about the money but about being more "successful" than the others.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    They can still crash to the ground, but the main factor I care more about is not burning the working class along the way. All the higher class CEO firings tended to come with mass layoffs, if not the company shutting down. So the hard worker who was hoping for a promotion was not only denied but let go because of decisions beyond their control. Something like a wage floor means that success benefits all workers who can then rise up there or in future ventures. And if it crashes the employees benefitted somewhat from the peak as opposed to today where even an inflation based raised isn't guaranteed. That can also be done with minimum wage laws, but this is a way to keep the hyper successful in check without necessarily impacting smaller business who can legitimately only offer the bare minimum.

The article highlights some at the end for exploration (I also left a summary on another reply if you want a TLDR). But to tread new ground: not really. Firing is scary for a regular employee because they need to work to live, pay off debts, potentially care for family, and more. Many can't just take off a year without these finances without losing some of these factors. For many still, even a few months of no income can have heavy impacts, especially if we step outside our HN tech bubble. A quick google tells me that the median CEO makes 20 million a year. they really don't need to work a day in their lives after a mere year or 2 of work. All the above financial factors simply aren't a thing unless their quality of life is insanely lavish (like, a full time crew managing a yatch lavish). What's more, their severance is again, usually in the millions. they get rewarded for failing more money than your average worker will make in their career. I don't have an answer (none of the answers in the article are particularly good), but we can start by snipping those parachutes out of contracts. Severance's goal is to minimize financial impact to employees when a company downsizes. your average CEO does not have financial impact that a middle class worker would take any sympathies toward.

boeingUH60 3y ago
> A quick google tells me that the median CEO makes 20 million a year. What a damn lie. The median CEO pay in the USA is $189,520, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics [1]. $20 million is median pay for CEOs of S&P 500 companies, the biggest companies in the country…I wonder why people let themselves get suckered by clickbait. 1- https://www.bls.gov/ooh/management/top-executives.htm#:~:text=%2498%2C100-,The%20median%20annual%20wage%20for%20chief%20executives%20was%20%24189%2C520%20in,percent%20earned%20more%20than%20%24239%2C200 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/management/top-executives.htm#:~:tex....
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  Point taken, but I think your link takes the "top executive" too much in the other direction. Mentioning that the median top executive in the government sector (which would be what, the president? Senate?) being $120k in 2022 makes me think that that title isn't quite what people think of, similar to being a "vice president" of a bank. to come at a comprimise instead of calling everyone liars over statistics with differing definitions: Salary.com lists a median of $830k. Not quite "retire in 2 years" money, but well past middle class and more than enough to establish your own safety net. My main point doesn't change here. https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/chief-executive-officer-salary https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/chief-execu...
vladms 3y ago
Yet, many CEO-s seem to be appearing again and again (even bad ones as others pointed out). I do not know many, but the few CEO-s I have personally interacted with seem completely driven by the wish to succeed, having some form of lacking empathy, being very optimistic and being a bit charismatic. With such traits potential punishments will not work great (they will just think "it will never happen to me"), hence it is why I think rewards are used more, but mostly as a form of measuring "success". After couple of millions it is not really about the money but about being more "successful" than the others.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  They can still crash to the ground, but the main factor I care more about is not burning the working class along the way. All the higher class CEO firings tended to come with mass layoffs, if not the company shutting down. So the hard worker who was hoping for a promotion was not only denied but let go because of decisions beyond their control. Something like a wage floor means that success benefits all workers who can then rise up there or in future ventures. And if it crashes the employees benefitted somewhat from the peak as opposed to today where even an inflation based raised isn't guaranteed. That can also be done with minimum wage laws, but this is a way to keep the hyper successful in check without necessarily impacting smaller business who can legitimately only offer the bare minimum.