8 ms·

Save the Internet from the US

207 points by Fice 15y ago

jbarham 15y ago
Off topic, but the image is apt as it's from a film called "The Lives of Others", set in East Germany in 1984, about a secret police agent who conducts surveillance on a dissident writer. IMO it's a very well done and moving film, and well worth watching, especially given that the period is within relatively recent memory--well, for some of us! ;) IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/ Rotten Tomatoes: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_lives_of_others/ http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_lives_of_others/
- ward 15y ago
  Off the off topic: why is the English world so intent on translating everything? (Much like the French world I guess) In the Dutch speaking part of Belgium we try to refer to most movies in their original language (Das Leben Der Anderen, Cidade De Deus, ...), though we do seem to have trouble with Asian titles where we for some obscure reason default to using the English title. Edit: We do translate children's movies.
  - babarock 15y ago
    On that trend of off topics, I was part of a small movie buff group back in Lebanon. Nothing fancy, we just liked to meet and discuss movies we watched and liked. Clearly no title was ever translated. Movies weren't even dubbed (blasphemy!), subtitled if necessary. Now I live in Paris, every time I get in touch with my old buddies they make fun of me for referring to movies by their French titles. Sucks big time ...
    - ward 15y ago
      > Movies weren't even dubbed (blasphemy!) We subtitle everything, it's quite handy. I learned a great part of my English by watching English language shows with Dutch subtitles.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 15y ago
    In some cases, foreign films have English titles anyway without translation. A lot of Japanese anime have entirely English titles, for instance, or are dual-titled in Japanese and English.
    - Jebus 15y ago
      Would this still happen if the US didn't invade Japan?
      - philwelch 15y ago
        If the US didn't invade Japan, anime likely wouldn't exist.
  - scott_s 15y ago
    In the Dutch speaking part of Belgium, are there a large number of people who will understand what the original-language titles mean?
    - ward 15y ago
      German and French titles: yes definitely. Portuguese (like my aforementioned Cidade de Deus)? No, safe some exceptions nobody knows beforehand what it means. Guess we're just used to finding it out afterwards, eg an article about the film could mention a translation in the body.
  - thomaslangston 15y ago
    Guess: A/B testing confirmed that it led to higher movie sales.
    - simcop2387 15y ago
      Unlikely to be true A/B testing. More likely that it would be a series of focus groups where they basically get the opinions of a group of people on them. This doesn't measure the actual impact of sales from the title so I'm not sure it's true A/B testing.
  - forgottenpaswrd 15y ago
    "why is the English world so intent on translating everything?" Because in big countries like Germany, France or Spain people could survive without speaking another language, so they do not understand those names and can't remember them. In super-countries like China, USA or Russia this effect is even stronger. Belgium is a small country linked to commerce in the world, and is fairly typical to have normal people speak 3-4 languages. An American could die speaking only her native tongue without the need to learn anything else being able to work over an extension that is bigger than Europe, or just ask for using it whenever in the world she is.
  - freehunter 15y ago
    Because America has few close neighbors (close as in geographically and as in relations) who speak a foreign language and also produce media Americans consume on a regular basis. Americans don't need to learn a foreign language, and when they do it's difficult to get real-world practice. Canadian French and Mexican Spanish are the only two an American would generally run into, and only infrequently. I speak German and Canadian French and struggle to find reasons to use those languages. It irritates me when Europeans get upset about American lack of "worldliness" (for lack of a better term). The US is bigger than the entire European Union, has only one de facto language, and is removed from the rest of the world by 3,000 miles of water on each side. Of course Americans aren't constantly running into people from other countries/cultures, we have states that are bigger than many European sovereign nations. I can drive 3000 miles (~5000km) from New York to LA and encounter nothing but America and English. In Europe, that would get you from Brugge to Burgas and back, going through Belgium, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, and Bulgaria. And back. Lisbon is closer to Helsinki than New York is to LA.
    - carguy1983 15y ago
      > Of course Americans aren't constantly running into people from other countries/cultures Really? Not to sound like a prick but you must live in the middle of nowhere. I live in LA (santa monica, to be exact). I live next to an eastern European deli, kosher jewish, multiple Chinese restaurants, sushi, ramen, and yaki joints, thai, Peruvian, Mexican, Korean, Caribbean/Jamaican/Cuban Vietnamese, French, German, Ethiopian, Greek, Italian, "middle eastern", persian, mediterranean, russian restaurants / groceries / communities / -owned businesses/ the list goes on and on and on. And of course good ol' american BBQ, burgers and beer, standard fast food, ice cream, southern soul food, tex mex, east coast seafood, southern creole, ... Many people come here from around the world to work in professional jobs, also. And many students and faculty at UCLA, LMU, USC, SMC, etc, etc. It's just that many of those people all speak English, can act 100% "American" when they need to, and their cultures have become a seamless part of American culture. This is something else many non-Americans don't understand (and Americans don't see even though it's right under their noses). In fact, if you count the languages that "Americans" including 1st and 2nd generation immigrants speak, it's vast. Ugly truth: It's just that a lot of Europeans don't count asians, hispanics, blacks, as Americans, so you hear this crap all the time on the internet due to racism and stereotypes of what America is and isn't.
- Fice 15y ago
  According to Wikipedia, the film is distributed by Sony Pictures Classics which is a subdivision of Sony Pictures Entertainment, an MPAA member. So by purchasing a copy of this film you will support Internet censorship.
  - EvilTerran 15y ago
    jbarham only said that it's worth watching, not that it's worth buying... (yarr!)
  - jonursenbach 15y ago
    That's not really how that works.
- cfn 15y ago
  It was on the BBC recently and it is a fantastic film.
DodgyEggplant 15y ago
We must simplify it: Any *PA bill is wrong.
terhechte 15y ago
I didn't really look into this law, but notwithstanding whether it's really as bad as the site claims, there's one really worrying effect of this: Congress just has to continue trying, and some point people won't care enough anymore to stop it. The SOPA protests were impressive, but I'm doubtful that people will manage to continue protesting like that with every new law that congress is trying to sneak in. A bit like the constant reporting in the news about cruel same wars makes people care less about it.
- moilolita 15y ago
  Shhhh... they don't know it yet !!!
- Teapot 15y ago
  Well, some good comes from this. It raises awareness. Anyone new to these issues becomes informed.
- ori_b 15y ago
  We need to lobby for strong net neutrality and privacy laws. As much as I dislike regulation, leaving things as a vacuum doesn't work -- pushed by lobbyists, the laws will expand to fill the gaps to the advantage of some party.
- antninja 15y ago
  That's what constitutions are for: if one of its articles declared that what happens within the Internet is outside the jurisdiction of the Republic, then they won't be able to try and pass any more law like this one. Of course, since the power to modify the constitution has been given to those same politicians, it won't happen. Democratic powers must be carefully redistributed.
- za 15y ago
  People want a climax - to win and relax. SOPA as the goal is framing things wrong. SOPA is merely the product of a broken system.
- Freestyler_3 15y ago
  Looks to me that that is exactly what they are doing.
babarock 15y ago
How long should we, the non-US citizen rest of the world, sit back and look at the country battling internal political demons while attacking the Internet every other week with a new law proposal? I'm not very big on politics, as far as I'm concerned every official, elected or not, of every country in the world is a useless nuisance (some would call them a necessary evil, that's up for debate). On the other hand, I'm very attached to the Internet. I really hope we'd find a way to take this cyberspace out of any political jursdiction; utlimately, what I care about is being able to say and read whatever I want off the internet. Politicians and corporations won't care for that no matter who they are. All they care is for power and money. And in that aspect the Internet is a goldmine.
- Freestyler_3 15y ago
  I agree, are we going to hear this every month/week? Are they hoping that eventually the big crowd will just give up because its too much work fighting the government with their own rules. And why? Because companies think that this is the medicine to their failing. Government wants the power they shouldn't have...what's new with that? If China did it so can they right?
  - seanp2k2 15y ago
    You were maybe joking with the China bit, but MPAA Grand Poobah Chris Dodd has seriously made the that exact argument http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111208/14521817014/mpaa-boss-if-chinese-censor-internet-without-problem-why-cant-us.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111208/14521817014/mpaa-b...
- seanp2k2 15y ago
  We need an alternative DNS root zone that is controlled by something like NATO (but for Internet interoperability.) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root This would democratize the Internet an take lots of control away from the US
  - davidw 15y ago
emilis_info 15y ago
More details about the bill: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120402/04425118325/forget-sopa-you-should-be-worried-about-this-cybersecurity-bill.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120402/04425118325/forget...
monsterix 15y ago
Who are the hundred 'special ones' supporting such a bill in the first place? It would be really nice if someone could compile profiles of these political leaders/servants, their names, and office of public duty. Often there are a lot 2 cent/4 cent support staff helping such 100 odd people introducing lame bills too. Call it bureaucracy or whatever. Bring these people online, and connect with them. Confront them, probably. I think it would be really nice to meet these people, and perhaps interact with. [Edit: Spell check]
- camiller 15y ago
  http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr3523 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr3523 find the link that says "show cosponsors" and click it. click any individual name for more details.
  - monsterix 15y ago
    Thanks, camiller :-) This just got interesting for me to dig deeper. Probably all stories about these negative bills should carry photos and profiles of who's who in the league. If it's about transparency enforcement then the sword should sweep in both the directions. That's fair to ask, I believe, especially from chairs that are funded from taxpayers money.
    - camiller 15y ago
      For what it is worth, you can also read the text of the bill there. Having done so (it is only 11 pages), I'm not convinced this is a "negative" bill.
nsns 15y ago
While the cause is just, I'm not sure I want to sign an Avaaz petition. After all, they are also a (political) lobby, with its own, somewhat questionable, agendas, not a grassroots movement in any way. I also seriously doubt that a petition is better than US citizens calling their representatives, as was recommended during the last struggle. [http://wrongkindofgreen.org/2012/03/07/the-grotesque-and-disturbing-ideology-at-the-helm-of-avaaz/ http://wrongkindofgreen.org/2012/03/07/the-grotesque-and-dis... http://www.moonofalabama.org/2012/03/avaaz-sponsoring-fake-reporting-from-syria.html http://www.moonofalabama.org/2012/03/avaaz-sponsoring-fake-r... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/20/avaaz-activism-slactivism-clicktivism?INTCMP=SRCH http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/20/avaaz-activism-s...]
- slowpoke 15y ago
  >I also seriously doubt that a petition is better than US citizens calling their representatives, as was recommended during the last struggle. The thing is, this affects far more than just US citizens. What is the rest of the world supposed to do? Sit and watch while hoping the US citizens sort it out?
  - tsotha 15y ago
    >The thing is, this affects far more than just US citizens. What is the rest of the world supposed to do? Sit and watch while hoping the US citizens sort it out? As opposed to signing a petition? Seems like the same thing to me.
  - camiller 15y ago
    Contact your own politicians and have them put pressure on your version of what we call the "State Department" to in turn pressure the US to stop this crap. If you indeed think this particular bill is crap, of which I remain unconvinced (see my posting elsewhere in this thread on the subject).
- loopdoend 15y ago
  Petition? I thought this was a viral lead generation campaign designed to drive donations to the organization. Man, all this time people have been signing these things hoping to make a difference? This is a rather interesting strategy that could have been applied at my startup, had I thought of it sooner.
noonespecial 15y ago
The internet shouldn't need "saving" from any country. The lopsided control that the US has over the internet is kind of an accident. This should start to sort itself out on its own. It might be worth hurrying along where possible by technical means. Then again, the more crazy the Americans pour on, the faster their influence may wane. "American internet" might start to have the same reputation as American airports.
- seanp2k2 15y ago
  It's really sad to see some special interest groups trying to put a damper on what seems to be the only industry growing like crazy and disrupting every other industry: tech. We can keep protesting, but MAFIAA is relentless and they have all the money we keep giving them through DVD sales, movie tickets, album sales, Netflix, Hulu, cable tv, etc. If you really want to fight them, stop funding their domestic terrorism.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - trobertson 15y ago
    > only industry ... disrupting every other industry Why are you surprised that they are trying to save themselves? That's the logical thing for them to do. They have no reason to let the internet destroy them, and every reason to try to prevent that. It sucks for us, because we have to deal with it, but it's a very logical thing for them to do. It would be better if they learned to coexist with the internet, but most of these industries are not known for being innovative enough to do so.
    - sophacles 15y ago
      Saving themselves is logical. Saving themselves by adjusting to the new world and being leaders in of "new content" is equally as valid "destroy all that threatens our current model". The later is probably more logical too, as making enemies who then seek to destroy you is less productive than making friends who seek to further the aims and goals of both groups. Right now the MPAA has chosen pyrrhic victory over a win-win, this is by definition illogical.
shareme 15y ago
Kind of a false flag as NSA already has that power via Bush and Obama.. This bill is basically to make that illegal act legal for those companies that help them do it. Thus, preventing passage would mean that we should still be able to sue the private companies empowering the NSA to do this..
camiller 15y ago
The bill is only 11 pages and is a fairly easy (for legislation) read. My initial pass through the bill I'm having trouble seeing what is wrong with it. This bill seems to simply allow federal intelligence agencies who are already collecting information on cyber-security threats to share that information with other governmental agencies and non-governmental entities. If the gov't has information that crackers are trying to hack the power grid I want them to be able to share that information with the power company, duh. If someone can explain why this bill is actually bad I'll be happy to contact my rep, but right now I don't think it is.
- J3L2404 15y ago
  Welcome to the new HN. Ever since pg put up his "Kill Hollywood" rant the site has been overrun with script kiddie downloaders.
- Goronmon 15y ago
  It sounds like this gives the government the power to monitor the internet connections of anyone in order to see if they are doing things like infringing copyright.
  - Goronmon 15y ago
    Woohoo, bring on the downvotes.
    - camiller 15y ago
      In the interest of discussion I up voted you, not sure who is down voting. Just out of curiosity, where in the bill does it suggest they could, by virtue of this bill, monitor anyone's connection. To me the bill seems to be about the sharing of information, not the collection of it. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise.
joering2 15y ago
I think up to some point, the DNS is a result of human laziness. I wish the IP system could be simplified, like phone numbers. Before ability to save every number in your cell phonebook, you had to remember your mom and pop number. If I would know that Google servers (or main root server/hub) is located in New York, and 212 is area code, all I would have to remember, for example, is 555-821. This would limit ways in which LE can take down the website, when they do not shut down the server/website, but redirect the domain name to their site.
andreif 15y ago
As someone has already said here on HN, that since those greedy guys will never stop trying such things, the community must kick them back by taking away their unjustified privileges and "rights", by changing copyright law the way WE ALL WANT IT. I hope that the next initiative involving this big number of people will be about fighting back, not defending.

207 points by Fice 15y ago

Off topic, but the image is apt as it's from a film called "The Lives of Others", set in East Germany in 1984, about a secret police agent who conducts surveillance on a dissident writer. IMO it's a very well done and moving film, and well worth watching, especially given that the period is within relatively recent memory--well, for some of us! ;) IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/ Rotten Tomatoes: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_lives_of_others/ http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_lives_of_others/

ward 15y ago
Off the off topic: why is the English world so intent on translating everything? (Much like the French world I guess) In the Dutch speaking part of Belgium we try to refer to most movies in their original language (Das Leben Der Anderen, Cidade De Deus, ...), though we do seem to have trouble with Asian titles where we for some obscure reason default to using the English title. Edit: We do translate children's movies.
- babarock 15y ago
  On that trend of off topics, I was part of a small movie buff group back in Lebanon. Nothing fancy, we just liked to meet and discuss movies we watched and liked. Clearly no title was ever translated. Movies weren't even dubbed (blasphemy!), subtitled if necessary. Now I live in Paris, every time I get in touch with my old buddies they make fun of me for referring to movies by their French titles. Sucks big time ...
  - ward 15y ago
    > Movies weren't even dubbed (blasphemy!) We subtitle everything, it's quite handy. I learned a great part of my English by watching English language shows with Dutch subtitles.
- TazeTSchnitzel 15y ago
  In some cases, foreign films have English titles anyway without translation. A lot of Japanese anime have entirely English titles, for instance, or are dual-titled in Japanese and English.
  - Jebus 15y ago
    Would this still happen if the US didn't invade Japan?
    - philwelch 15y ago
      If the US didn't invade Japan, anime likely wouldn't exist.
- scott_s 15y ago
  In the Dutch speaking part of Belgium, are there a large number of people who will understand what the original-language titles mean?
  - ward 15y ago
    German and French titles: yes definitely. Portuguese (like my aforementioned Cidade de Deus)? No, safe some exceptions nobody knows beforehand what it means. Guess we're just used to finding it out afterwards, eg an article about the film could mention a translation in the body.
- thomaslangston 15y ago
  Guess: A/B testing confirmed that it led to higher movie sales.
  - simcop2387 15y ago
    Unlikely to be true A/B testing. More likely that it would be a series of focus groups where they basically get the opinions of a group of people on them. This doesn't measure the actual impact of sales from the title so I'm not sure it's true A/B testing.
- forgottenpaswrd 15y ago
  "why is the English world so intent on translating everything?" Because in big countries like Germany, France or Spain people could survive without speaking another language, so they do not understand those names and can't remember them. In super-countries like China, USA or Russia this effect is even stronger. Belgium is a small country linked to commerce in the world, and is fairly typical to have normal people speak 3-4 languages. An American could die speaking only her native tongue without the need to learn anything else being able to work over an extension that is bigger than Europe, or just ask for using it whenever in the world she is.
- freehunter 15y ago
  Because America has few close neighbors (close as in geographically and as in relations) who speak a foreign language and also produce media Americans consume on a regular basis. Americans don't need to learn a foreign language, and when they do it's difficult to get real-world practice. Canadian French and Mexican Spanish are the only two an American would generally run into, and only infrequently. I speak German and Canadian French and struggle to find reasons to use those languages. It irritates me when Europeans get upset about American lack of "worldliness" (for lack of a better term). The US is bigger than the entire European Union, has only one de facto language, and is removed from the rest of the world by 3,000 miles of water on each side. Of course Americans aren't constantly running into people from other countries/cultures, we have states that are bigger than many European sovereign nations. I can drive 3000 miles (~5000km) from New York to LA and encounter nothing but America and English. In Europe, that would get you from Brugge to Burgas and back, going through Belgium, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, and Bulgaria. And back. Lisbon is closer to Helsinki than New York is to LA.
  - carguy1983 15y ago
    > Of course Americans aren't constantly running into people from other countries/cultures Really? Not to sound like a prick but you must live in the middle of nowhere. I live in LA (santa monica, to be exact). I live next to an eastern European deli, kosher jewish, multiple Chinese restaurants, sushi, ramen, and yaki joints, thai, Peruvian, Mexican, Korean, Caribbean/Jamaican/Cuban Vietnamese, French, German, Ethiopian, Greek, Italian, "middle eastern", persian, mediterranean, russian restaurants / groceries / communities / -owned businesses/ the list goes on and on and on. And of course good ol' american BBQ, burgers and beer, standard fast food, ice cream, southern soul food, tex mex, east coast seafood, southern creole, ... Many people come here from around the world to work in professional jobs, also. And many students and faculty at UCLA, LMU, USC, SMC, etc, etc. It's just that many of those people all speak English, can act 100% "American" when they need to, and their cultures have become a seamless part of American culture. This is something else many non-Americans don't understand (and Americans don't see even though it's right under their noses). In fact, if you count the languages that "Americans" including 1st and 2nd generation immigrants speak, it's vast. Ugly truth: It's just that a lot of Europeans don't count asians, hispanics, blacks, as Americans, so you hear this crap all the time on the internet due to racism and stereotypes of what America is and isn't.
Fice 15y ago
According to Wikipedia, the film is distributed by Sony Pictures Classics which is a subdivision of Sony Pictures Entertainment, an MPAA member. So by purchasing a copy of this film you will support Internet censorship.
- EvilTerran 15y ago
  jbarham only said that it's worth watching, not that it's worth buying... (yarr!)
- jonursenbach 15y ago
  That's not really how that works.
cfn 15y ago
It was on the BBC recently and it is a fantastic film.

DodgyEggplant 15y ago

We must simplify it: Any *PA bill is wrong.

terhechte 15y ago

I didn't really look into this law, but notwithstanding whether it's really as bad as the site claims, there's one really worrying effect of this: Congress just has to continue trying, and some point people won't care enough anymore to stop it. The SOPA protests were impressive, but I'm doubtful that people will manage to continue protesting like that with every new law that congress is trying to sneak in. A bit like the constant reporting in the news about cruel same wars makes people care less about it.

moilolita 15y ago
Shhhh... they don't know it yet !!!
Teapot 15y ago
Well, some good comes from this. It raises awareness. Anyone new to these issues becomes informed.
ori_b 15y ago
We need to lobby for strong net neutrality and privacy laws. As much as I dislike regulation, leaving things as a vacuum doesn't work -- pushed by lobbyists, the laws will expand to fill the gaps to the advantage of some party.
antninja 15y ago
That's what constitutions are for: if one of its articles declared that what happens within the Internet is outside the jurisdiction of the Republic, then they won't be able to try and pass any more law like this one. Of course, since the power to modify the constitution has been given to those same politicians, it won't happen. Democratic powers must be carefully redistributed.
za 15y ago
People want a climax - to win and relax. SOPA as the goal is framing things wrong. SOPA is merely the product of a broken system.
Freestyler_3 15y ago
Looks to me that that is exactly what they are doing.

babarock 15y ago

How long should we, the non-US citizen rest of the world, sit back and look at the country battling internal political demons while attacking the Internet every other week with a new law proposal? I'm not very big on politics, as far as I'm concerned every official, elected or not, of every country in the world is a useless nuisance (some would call them a necessary evil, that's up for debate). On the other hand, I'm very attached to the Internet. I really hope we'd find a way to take this cyberspace out of any political jursdiction; utlimately, what I care about is being able to say and read whatever I want off the internet. Politicians and corporations won't care for that no matter who they are. All they care is for power and money. And in that aspect the Internet is a goldmine.

Freestyler_3 15y ago
I agree, are we going to hear this every month/week? Are they hoping that eventually the big crowd will just give up because its too much work fighting the government with their own rules. And why? Because companies think that this is the medicine to their failing. Government wants the power they shouldn't have...what's new with that? If China did it so can they right?
- seanp2k2 15y ago
  You were maybe joking with the China bit, but MPAA Grand Poobah Chris Dodd has seriously made the that exact argument http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111208/14521817014/mpaa-boss-if-chinese-censor-internet-without-problem-why-cant-us.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111208/14521817014/mpaa-b...
seanp2k2 15y ago
We need an alternative DNS root zone that is controlled by something like NATO (but for Internet interoperability.) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root This would democratize the Internet an take lots of control away from the US
- davidw 15y ago

emilis_info 15y ago

More details about the bill: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120402/04425118325/forget-sopa-you-should-be-worried-about-this-cybersecurity-bill.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120402/04425118325/forget...

monsterix 15y ago

Who are the hundred 'special ones' supporting such a bill in the first place? It would be really nice if someone could compile profiles of these political leaders/servants, their names, and office of public duty. Often there are a lot 2 cent/4 cent support staff helping such 100 odd people introducing lame bills too. Call it bureaucracy or whatever. Bring these people online, and connect with them. Confront them, probably. I think it would be really nice to meet these people, and perhaps interact with. [Edit: Spell check]

camiller 15y ago
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr3523 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr3523 find the link that says "show cosponsors" and click it. click any individual name for more details.
- monsterix 15y ago
  Thanks, camiller :-) This just got interesting for me to dig deeper. Probably all stories about these negative bills should carry photos and profiles of who's who in the league. If it's about transparency enforcement then the sword should sweep in both the directions. That's fair to ask, I believe, especially from chairs that are funded from taxpayers money.
  - camiller 15y ago
    For what it is worth, you can also read the text of the bill there. Having done so (it is only 11 pages), I'm not convinced this is a "negative" bill.

nsns 15y ago

While the cause is just, I'm not sure I want to sign an Avaaz petition. After all, they are also a (political) lobby, with its own, somewhat questionable, agendas, not a grassroots movement in any way. I also seriously doubt that a petition is better than US citizens calling their representatives, as was recommended during the last struggle. [http://wrongkindofgreen.org/2012/03/07/the-grotesque-and-disturbing-ideology-at-the-helm-of-avaaz/ http://wrongkindofgreen.org/2012/03/07/the-grotesque-and-dis... http://www.moonofalabama.org/2012/03/avaaz-sponsoring-fake-reporting-from-syria.html http://www.moonofalabama.org/2012/03/avaaz-sponsoring-fake-r... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/20/avaaz-activism-slactivism-clicktivism?INTCMP=SRCH http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/20/avaaz-activism-s...]

slowpoke 15y ago
>I also seriously doubt that a petition is better than US citizens calling their representatives, as was recommended during the last struggle. The thing is, this affects far more than just US citizens. What is the rest of the world supposed to do? Sit and watch while hoping the US citizens sort it out?
- tsotha 15y ago
  >The thing is, this affects far more than just US citizens. What is the rest of the world supposed to do? Sit and watch while hoping the US citizens sort it out? As opposed to signing a petition? Seems like the same thing to me.
- camiller 15y ago
  Contact your own politicians and have them put pressure on your version of what we call the "State Department" to in turn pressure the US to stop this crap. If you indeed think this particular bill is crap, of which I remain unconvinced (see my posting elsewhere in this thread on the subject).
loopdoend 15y ago
Petition? I thought this was a viral lead generation campaign designed to drive donations to the organization. Man, all this time people have been signing these things hoping to make a difference? This is a rather interesting strategy that could have been applied at my startup, had I thought of it sooner.

noonespecial 15y ago

The internet shouldn't need "saving" from any country. The lopsided control that the US has over the internet is kind of an accident. This should start to sort itself out on its own. It might be worth hurrying along where possible by technical means. Then again, the more crazy the Americans pour on, the faster their influence may wane. "American internet" might start to have the same reputation as American airports.

seanp2k2 15y ago
It's really sad to see some special interest groups trying to put a damper on what seems to be the only industry growing like crazy and disrupting every other industry: tech. We can keep protesting, but MAFIAA is relentless and they have all the money we keep giving them through DVD sales, movie tickets, album sales, Netflix, Hulu, cable tv, etc. If you really want to fight them, stop funding their domestic terrorism.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- trobertson 15y ago
  > only industry ... disrupting every other industry Why are you surprised that they are trying to save themselves? That's the logical thing for them to do. They have no reason to let the internet destroy them, and every reason to try to prevent that. It sucks for us, because we have to deal with it, but it's a very logical thing for them to do. It would be better if they learned to coexist with the internet, but most of these industries are not known for being innovative enough to do so.
  - sophacles 15y ago
    Saving themselves is logical. Saving themselves by adjusting to the new world and being leaders in of "new content" is equally as valid "destroy all that threatens our current model". The later is probably more logical too, as making enemies who then seek to destroy you is less productive than making friends who seek to further the aims and goals of both groups. Right now the MPAA has chosen pyrrhic victory over a win-win, this is by definition illogical.

shareme 15y ago

Kind of a false flag as NSA already has that power via Bush and Obama.. This bill is basically to make that illegal act legal for those companies that help them do it. Thus, preventing passage would mean that we should still be able to sue the private companies empowering the NSA to do this..

camiller 15y ago

The bill is only 11 pages and is a fairly easy (for legislation) read. My initial pass through the bill I'm having trouble seeing what is wrong with it. This bill seems to simply allow federal intelligence agencies who are already collecting information on cyber-security threats to share that information with other governmental agencies and non-governmental entities. If the gov't has information that crackers are trying to hack the power grid I want them to be able to share that information with the power company, duh. If someone can explain why this bill is actually bad I'll be happy to contact my rep, but right now I don't think it is.

J3L2404 15y ago
Welcome to the new HN. Ever since pg put up his "Kill Hollywood" rant the site has been overrun with script kiddie downloaders.
Goronmon 15y ago
It sounds like this gives the government the power to monitor the internet connections of anyone in order to see if they are doing things like infringing copyright.
- Goronmon 15y ago
  Woohoo, bring on the downvotes.
  - camiller 15y ago
    In the interest of discussion I up voted you, not sure who is down voting. Just out of curiosity, where in the bill does it suggest they could, by virtue of this bill, monitor anyone's connection. To me the bill seems to be about the sharing of information, not the collection of it. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise.

joering2 15y ago

I think up to some point, the DNS is a result of human laziness. I wish the IP system could be simplified, like phone numbers. Before ability to save every number in your cell phonebook, you had to remember your mom and pop number. If I would know that Google servers (or main root server/hub) is located in New York, and 212 is area code, all I would have to remember, for example, is 555-821. This would limit ways in which LE can take down the website, when they do not shut down the server/website, but redirect the domain name to their site.

andreif 15y ago

As someone has already said here on HN, that since those greedy guys will never stop trying such things, the community must kick them back by taking away their unjustified privileges and "rights", by changing copyright law the way WE ALL WANT IT. I hope that the next initiative involving this big number of people will be about fighting back, not defending.