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> Moral issues, security issues, etc. How is blocking ads not a moral issue? Video creators also get hurt by ad blockers, not just YT, which does have costs as

> Moral issues, security issues, etc. How is blocking ads not a moral issue? Video creators also get hurt by ad blockers, not just YT, which does have costs associated with serving you video. > So on those you never see ads? I think they started showing ads on them, just fewer. They do cost storage and bandwidth, so what's wrong with that? > Well, I can't speak for anyone else but I'm a middle-aged historian, so starting a video hosting platform is far beyond my expertise. Though in general asking someone "why don't you just go build it yourself" in response to a complaint about a service, software, or hardware item is a bit trite Popular web sites are typically co-founded by non-tech folks. Anyway, what I meant that if you looked into starting one, you'd understand the immense scale of storage and bandwidth costs.

vehementi 3y ago
As they said, you aren't breaking new ground by asking these questions. Maybe bring yourself up to the state of the art of this debate etc. and contribute to that discussion wherever it is
daeros 3y ago
Yes but, how are the content creators my problem, especially when Google isn't vetting their ads well enough to keep scam and malvertising people off their and networks. I could raise you to counter that the morally right thing to do is block those ads, at least until Google starts vetting its advertisers well enough to keep scammers out. How do content creators feel, profiting from the scamvertising going on on google's platforms?
- guappa 3y ago
  Content creators do a lot of scamming from their part as well. They advertise nordvpn claiming that without using it, all of your traffic is unencrypted for example.
kahnclusions 3y ago
> Video creators also get hurt by ad blockers I don’t have any kind of business relationship or agreement with content creators. This is their problem and YouTube’s problem. I only deal with YouTube, which sends video streams to my computer for free, and I’m exercising my right to decide what I want to play on my own computer that I own. More and more content creators are getting their income through sponsorships and referrals, anyways, as they feel the squeeze of YouTube’s exploitative and predatory behaviour.
jonathanstrange 3y ago
There is a moral issue, you're right. Blocking ads is clearly morally permissible. Blocking ads is equivalent to not locking at billboards and skipping ad pages in a magazine (or tearing the pages out). There is no moral issue with any of that. You've bought a PC, you run whatever software you like on it. You have a right to chose how your machine displays content you download from the net. In turn, the maker of a web page can chose to offer whatever they want. If they need more money, then they can transmit the content only if you pay. That's perfectly feasible and reasonable. What they cannot and should be able to decide is how your machine displays their content and what kind of other software you use on your machine. I believe that - if at all - only tightly controlled government authorities should be allowed to force display messages on end user machines, and if so, only in severe emergencies and for the protection of civilian lives. People in this debate sometimes argue based on costs and money lost from ad revenue. These are business discussions that have no place in the moral evaluation at all. Not every business model works. So what, find another business model, is the answer.
- erremerre 3y ago
  Blocking ads is not morally permissible. Charging ads by the display is. Any ad should charge the user by ad displayed or attempted to display, not by click or any other way. Just as TV advertisement. If the user goes to make a sandwich, skip it or remove the sound the ad should still be charged to owner of the ad.
  - jonathanstrange 3y ago
    Do you have any arguments for this opinion or is it an expression of a personal moral sentiment? My argument why ad blocking is morally permissible is that it's a matter of the end users personal freedom if and how they display content from remote servers. They should be allowed to use a hex editor, plaintext, braille, TTS, a browser with or without ad ons, etc., and must be allowed to modify the content for their display purposes as they wish as long as they don't redistribute it. That's even a central idea of the HTML specification. There are also plenty of analogies to similar freedoms, for example if I buy a magazine (or get it for free) I can tear out ad pages and use them to fire my stove. Redistribution is another matter and concerns copyright, but I just can't see any reason why the maker of a web page ought to have a right (or even feel entitled) to control my machine and how the data they voluntarily send to my machine is displayed on it. It's not as if anyone forces them to send the data in the first place.

vehementi 3y ago

As they said, you aren't breaking new ground by asking these questions. Maybe bring yourself up to the state of the art of this debate etc. and contribute to that discussion wherever it is

daeros 3y ago

Yes but, how are the content creators my problem, especially when Google isn't vetting their ads well enough to keep scam and malvertising people off their and networks. I could raise you to counter that the morally right thing to do is block those ads, at least until Google starts vetting its advertisers well enough to keep scammers out. How do content creators feel, profiting from the scamvertising going on on google's platforms?

guappa 3y ago
Content creators do a lot of scamming from their part as well. They advertise nordvpn claiming that without using it, all of your traffic is unencrypted for example.

kahnclusions 3y ago

> Video creators also get hurt by ad blockers I don’t have any kind of business relationship or agreement with content creators. This is their problem and YouTube’s problem. I only deal with YouTube, which sends video streams to my computer for free, and I’m exercising my right to decide what I want to play on my own computer that I own. More and more content creators are getting their income through sponsorships and referrals, anyways, as they feel the squeeze of YouTube’s exploitative and predatory behaviour.

jonathanstrange 3y ago

There is a moral issue, you're right. Blocking ads is clearly morally permissible. Blocking ads is equivalent to not locking at billboards and skipping ad pages in a magazine (or tearing the pages out). There is no moral issue with any of that. You've bought a PC, you run whatever software you like on it. You have a right to chose how your machine displays content you download from the net. In turn, the maker of a web page can chose to offer whatever they want. If they need more money, then they can transmit the content only if you pay. That's perfectly feasible and reasonable. What they cannot and should be able to decide is how your machine displays their content and what kind of other software you use on your machine. I believe that - if at all - only tightly controlled government authorities should be allowed to force display messages on end user machines, and if so, only in severe emergencies and for the protection of civilian lives. People in this debate sometimes argue based on costs and money lost from ad revenue. These are business discussions that have no place in the moral evaluation at all. Not every business model works. So what, find another business model, is the answer.

erremerre 3y ago
Blocking ads is not morally permissible. Charging ads by the display is. Any ad should charge the user by ad displayed or attempted to display, not by click or any other way. Just as TV advertisement. If the user goes to make a sandwich, skip it or remove the sound the ad should still be charged to owner of the ad.
- jonathanstrange 3y ago
  Do you have any arguments for this opinion or is it an expression of a personal moral sentiment? My argument why ad blocking is morally permissible is that it's a matter of the end users personal freedom if and how they display content from remote servers. They should be allowed to use a hex editor, plaintext, braille, TTS, a browser with or without ad ons, etc., and must be allowed to modify the content for their display purposes as they wish as long as they don't redistribute it. That's even a central idea of the HTML specification. There are also plenty of analogies to similar freedoms, for example if I buy a magazine (or get it for free) I can tear out ad pages and use them to fire my stove. Redistribution is another matter and concerns copyright, but I just can't see any reason why the maker of a web page ought to have a right (or even feel entitled) to control my machine and how the data they voluntarily send to my machine is displayed on it. It's not as if anyone forces them to send the data in the first place.