6 ms·

Can you explain what the linked article has to do with the stated cause of the elephants dying, septicaemia?

jncfhnb 3y ago
Sure. From the article: > Elephants are highly sociable animals, and also were likely stressed due to the drought conditions at the time, which made such an outbreak more likely. > Scientists believe the Pasteurella bacteria generally lives harmlessly in the tonsils of some, if not all, of the antelopes. An unusual temperature increase to 37C, however, caused the bacteria to pass into the bloodstream, where it caused septicaemia.
smnrchrds 3y ago
I think the parent comment is referring to this paragraph: > Pasteurella bacteria has previously been linked to the sudden death of about 200,000 saiga antelopes in Kazakhstan – an incident that researchers believe could shed light on what happened to the elephant herds. Scientists believe the Pasteurella bacteria generally lives harmlessly in the tonsils of some, if not all, of the antelopes. An unusual temperature increase to 37C, however, caused the bacteria to pass into the bloodstream, where it caused septicaemia. I read it as the effect of body temperature, but the parent has interpreted it as air temperature. I am not sure which interpretation is correct.
- chnx 3y ago
  It's air temperature according to a linked article (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/25/mass-mortality-events-animal-conservation-climate-change https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/25/mass-mor...): > They concluded that a rise in temperature to 37C and an increase in humidity above 80% in the previous few days had stimulated the bacteria to pass into the bloodstream where it caused haemorrhagic septicaemia, or blood poisoning.
- kfarr 3y ago
  Fair to point out the confusion, however not sure the distinction is needed for the core point that global warming may increase similar incidents -- I think it's safe to assert body temperature is correlated with air temperature
  - trimethylpurine 3y ago
    I don't think they are correlated in warm blooded animals. Anyway, 37 degrees is a day at the beach in San Diego or Miami. It should hardly be fatal to most any mammal. You can blame drought, which is what the article did, but air temperature is not directly correlated with body temperature unless you're referring to an animal that's already dead.
  - kergonath 3y ago
    > I think it's safe to assert body temperature is correlated with air temperature Not at all. The whole point of warm-blooded organisms is to maintain a constant temperature, to a really good level of accuracy. A change in body temperature is not needed for this sort of things to happen, though. A warmer environment is enough. See for example the headlines about flesh eating bacteria creeping north in the US.
- pvaldes 3y ago
  > Scientists believe the Pasteurella bacteria generally lives harmlessly in the tonsils of some, if not all, of the antelopes. An unusual temperature increase to 37C, however, caused the bacteria to pass into the bloodstream, where it caused septicaemia "... except because it will be efficiently removed by its immune system (that knows perfectly what is a Pasteurella)" is the part of the phrase that is missing here. It this does not happen... the question is why this year is not happening.
newmana 3y ago
It's also worth noting, one of the author's of the paper: "Transmission of the bacteria is possible, especially given the highly sociable nature of elephants and the link between this infection and the stress associated with extreme weather events such as drought, which may make outbreaks more likely." https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/scientists-uncover-cause-mysterious-deaths-elephants-zimbabwe https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/scientists-uncover-cause-myste... Paper link: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-41987-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-41987-z
- kortilla 3y ago
  So not particularly familiar with the concept of control groups?
Sparkyte 3y ago
I agree, while shit is certainly hitting the fan. Fear mongering is not essential. Climate change is something that happens and will continue to happen long before and after humanity. If we want to preserve our world we want to focus our energy into conservation and not resource politics.
- Jedd 3y ago
  Conversely, 'everything is fine mongering' is probably actively harmful.
  - Sparkyte 3y ago
    This isn't an everything is fine mongering statement. Everything is not fine, but without clear cut research linking two completely different problems is not a scientific way of understanding why what happened. Fear mongering is what the original commenter is doing.
    - Jedd 3y ago
      > This isn't an everything is fine mongering statement. Then my apologies. The hand-wavey 'climate change happened before and will happen again' sounded like you thought it wasn't a critically important challenge facing us, frequently being down-graded by people with vested interests in understating the problem via dismissive 'this has happened before and we're okay' style comments. The 'we need more science' refrain is also often heard from that quarter, so I expect you'll continue to spark a certain reaction when you use that phrase. The problem in TFA definitely seems to be related to small rises in temperature leading to a much more favourable environment for pathogens. That it happened in elephants is profoundly sad, but what's genuinely frightening is we probably have close to zero coverage on what pathogens we're susceptible to are about to reach a viability threshold with a 2 degree rise. In another comment you ignored TFA findings and said: > But I am probably going to point out increased commercial farming in Africa as a potential culprit. The use of fertilizers are an issue with algae and bacteria growth. It would be convenient for climate change apologists if that were the case, but as per TFA the event seems to be pretty clearly attributable to Pasteurella bacteria.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Sure. From the article: > Elephants are highly sociable animals, and also were likely stressed due to the drought conditions at the time, which made such an outbreak more likely. > Scientists believe the Pasteurella bacteria generally lives harmlessly in the tonsils of some, if not all, of the antelopes. An unusual temperature increase to 37C, however, caused the bacteria to pass into the bloodstream, where it caused septicaemia.

smnrchrds 3y ago

I think the parent comment is referring to this paragraph: > Pasteurella bacteria has previously been linked to the sudden death of about 200,000 saiga antelopes in Kazakhstan – an incident that researchers believe could shed light on what happened to the elephant herds. Scientists believe the Pasteurella bacteria generally lives harmlessly in the tonsils of some, if not all, of the antelopes. An unusual temperature increase to 37C, however, caused the bacteria to pass into the bloodstream, where it caused septicaemia. I read it as the effect of body temperature, but the parent has interpreted it as air temperature. I am not sure which interpretation is correct.

chnx 3y ago
It's air temperature according to a linked article (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/25/mass-mortality-events-animal-conservation-climate-change https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/25/mass-mor...): > They concluded that a rise in temperature to 37C and an increase in humidity above 80% in the previous few days had stimulated the bacteria to pass into the bloodstream where it caused haemorrhagic septicaemia, or blood poisoning.
kfarr 3y ago
Fair to point out the confusion, however not sure the distinction is needed for the core point that global warming may increase similar incidents -- I think it's safe to assert body temperature is correlated with air temperature
- trimethylpurine 3y ago
  I don't think they are correlated in warm blooded animals. Anyway, 37 degrees is a day at the beach in San Diego or Miami. It should hardly be fatal to most any mammal. You can blame drought, which is what the article did, but air temperature is not directly correlated with body temperature unless you're referring to an animal that's already dead.
- kergonath 3y ago
  > I think it's safe to assert body temperature is correlated with air temperature Not at all. The whole point of warm-blooded organisms is to maintain a constant temperature, to a really good level of accuracy. A change in body temperature is not needed for this sort of things to happen, though. A warmer environment is enough. See for example the headlines about flesh eating bacteria creeping north in the US.
pvaldes 3y ago
> Scientists believe the Pasteurella bacteria generally lives harmlessly in the tonsils of some, if not all, of the antelopes. An unusual temperature increase to 37C, however, caused the bacteria to pass into the bloodstream, where it caused septicaemia "... except because it will be efficiently removed by its immune system (that knows perfectly what is a Pasteurella)" is the part of the phrase that is missing here. It this does not happen... the question is why this year is not happening.

newmana 3y ago

It's also worth noting, one of the author's of the paper: "Transmission of the bacteria is possible, especially given the highly sociable nature of elephants and the link between this infection and the stress associated with extreme weather events such as drought, which may make outbreaks more likely." https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/scientists-uncover-cause-mysterious-deaths-elephants-zimbabwe https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/scientists-uncover-cause-myste... Paper link: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-41987-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-41987-z

kortilla 3y ago
So not particularly familiar with the concept of control groups?

Sparkyte 3y ago

I agree, while shit is certainly hitting the fan. Fear mongering is not essential. Climate change is something that happens and will continue to happen long before and after humanity. If we want to preserve our world we want to focus our energy into conservation and not resource politics.

Jedd 3y ago
Conversely, 'everything is fine mongering' is probably actively harmful.
- Sparkyte 3y ago
  This isn't an everything is fine mongering statement. Everything is not fine, but without clear cut research linking two completely different problems is not a scientific way of understanding why what happened. Fear mongering is what the original commenter is doing.
  - Jedd 3y ago
    > This isn't an everything is fine mongering statement. Then my apologies. The hand-wavey 'climate change happened before and will happen again' sounded like you thought it wasn't a critically important challenge facing us, frequently being down-graded by people with vested interests in understating the problem via dismissive 'this has happened before and we're okay' style comments. The 'we need more science' refrain is also often heard from that quarter, so I expect you'll continue to spark a certain reaction when you use that phrase. The problem in TFA definitely seems to be related to small rises in temperature leading to a much more favourable environment for pathogens. That it happened in elephants is profoundly sad, but what's genuinely frightening is we probably have close to zero coverage on what pathogens we're susceptible to are about to reach a viability threshold with a 2 degree rise. In another comment you ignored TFA findings and said: > But I am probably going to point out increased commercial farming in Africa as a potential culprit. The use of fertilizers are an issue with algae and bacteria growth. It would be convenient for climate change apologists if that were the case, but as per TFA the event seems to be pretty clearly attributable to Pasteurella bacteria.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]