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> We are not going to be apologetic about exercising our legal rights to recover our money. Well…I guess coming right out and not hiding your douchebaggery is

> We are not going to be apologetic about exercising our legal rights to recover our money. Well…I guess coming right out and not hiding your douchebaggery is ever so slightly preferable than offering the sterilized and fake words of regret via press release that you might see from many other companies.

leventonportera 3y ago
[flagged]
- crzyman 3y ago
  I would argue that offering your employees a massive loan that you might forgive but it depends if they like you, is incredibly predatory. Terrifying in fact. I guess less bad that giving $100k in cash and asking for it back out of nowhere. But only because it's in the contract.
  - leventonportera 3y ago
    Wait, so the fact that banks offer loans to people, which they don't have to take is predatory then? The 0% APR for 2 years offers I get in the mail are predatory? This indeed must be terrifying for you, since those terrifying zero-interest offers of credit are in every store you go to, every bank you go to, and omg even in your own mailbox. So again just to be clear what you're saying. A loan with interest is ok. A loan with zero interest where you might get a chance to have it forgiven if you are a top performer at work, is "incredibly predatory and terrifying?" And by the way, for a guy selling his house for $3mil, having to give back $100k that he knew he might have to give back, after using it free for almost 2 years, is not "a massive loan." My wife and I spent $80k on refugee aid last year, and I don't have a $3mil house. It was an unplanned expense, but it changed our other spending or lifestyle in zero ways. It just means last year we didn't save as much for retirement as the year before.
  - Ferret7446 3y ago
    Why? It's literally free money. Stick it into an low risk investment account or even a money market account, give it back at the end and keep the interest. People should be held accountable for their own stupidity, and it's not like the company did anything deceptive AFAIU. If an adult doesn't understand what a loan is then that's on them (or their education, but that doesn't absolve their responsibility).
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  Calling something a "bonus" when it's actually a loan is indeed douchebaggery. If the company touted "free food", but somewhere deep in the fine print it said that the company has the right to retroactively charge you $500 per meal if they decide they don't like you two years down the road, that would also be douchebaggery. Just because something is legal doesn't make it not-douchebaggery.
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    Not even the Mafia is so unethical as to describe a predatory loan as a "bonus".
    - leventonportera 3y ago
      ah yes, a predatory loan is a a loan where you pay no interest, have a chance to have it forgiven, and at worst just return the original amount almost 2 years later, gaining the inflation amount. so any bonus that is not just cash in your pocket is not a bonus? what is the correct word for a really good freebie that a company gives you? you know, a great minimum reward, a possible much bigger reward if you are one of the top performers, so you have an incentive to perform. Let's say you pay $5 for a lottery ticket, where you're guaranteed to win $5 but can win $100. Is it predatory and unethical to you if you don't win the $100?
      - weard_beard 3y ago
        There is a thing that we all by convention understand: additional compensation. It is frequently tied to performance. Once given and cleared into a bank account it cannot be taken back. We call this a bonus. A loan, which must be paid back might be called a squirrel on mars but here on earth we don’t call it a bonus. A “benefit”? Maybe. Health insurance may retroactively renege on their promised coverage. 401ks are frequently embezzled. When these things happen it’s usually a pitiful, or illegal act worthy of derision. Like a predatory loan. You know what, I don’t think this is a benefit either. Let’s just call it a squirrel.
- bandyaboot 3y ago
  I don’t call it douchebaggery for anything that I’ve made up. They fired people right before the forgiveness date so the bonuses wouldn’t become effectively cash bonuses. That’s douchebaggery.
- itake 3y ago
  This isn't a $100k loan. The employee received a fraction of the $100k (due to taxes and tax withholding), but now may need to borrow money to cover their debt.
  - leventonportera 3y ago
    Let's face it - you made all of that up.
    - itake 3y ago
      If the down votes you received don't tell you that you're wrong, maybe this will: https://www.crowe.com/insights/crowe-financial-services-tax-insights/clawback-payoffs-cost-more-than-you-think https://www.crowe.com/insights/crowe-financial-services-tax-... If it was me, I'd have to pay an accountant to help me too.
      - leventonportera 3y ago
        [dead]

leventonportera 3y ago

[flagged]

crzyman 3y ago
I would argue that offering your employees a massive loan that you might forgive but it depends if they like you, is incredibly predatory. Terrifying in fact. I guess less bad that giving $100k in cash and asking for it back out of nowhere. But only because it's in the contract.
- leventonportera 3y ago
  Wait, so the fact that banks offer loans to people, which they don't have to take is predatory then? The 0% APR for 2 years offers I get in the mail are predatory? This indeed must be terrifying for you, since those terrifying zero-interest offers of credit are in every store you go to, every bank you go to, and omg even in your own mailbox. So again just to be clear what you're saying. A loan with interest is ok. A loan with zero interest where you might get a chance to have it forgiven if you are a top performer at work, is "incredibly predatory and terrifying?" And by the way, for a guy selling his house for $3mil, having to give back $100k that he knew he might have to give back, after using it free for almost 2 years, is not "a massive loan." My wife and I spent $80k on refugee aid last year, and I don't have a $3mil house. It was an unplanned expense, but it changed our other spending or lifestyle in zero ways. It just means last year we didn't save as much for retirement as the year before.
- Ferret7446 3y ago
  Why? It's literally free money. Stick it into an low risk investment account or even a money market account, give it back at the end and keep the interest. People should be held accountable for their own stupidity, and it's not like the company did anything deceptive AFAIU. If an adult doesn't understand what a loan is then that's on them (or their education, but that doesn't absolve their responsibility).
Turing_Machine 3y ago
Calling something a "bonus" when it's actually a loan is indeed douchebaggery. If the company touted "free food", but somewhere deep in the fine print it said that the company has the right to retroactively charge you $500 per meal if they decide they don't like you two years down the road, that would also be douchebaggery. Just because something is legal doesn't make it not-douchebaggery.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  Not even the Mafia is so unethical as to describe a predatory loan as a "bonus".
  - leventonportera 3y ago
    ah yes, a predatory loan is a a loan where you pay no interest, have a chance to have it forgiven, and at worst just return the original amount almost 2 years later, gaining the inflation amount. so any bonus that is not just cash in your pocket is not a bonus? what is the correct word for a really good freebie that a company gives you? you know, a great minimum reward, a possible much bigger reward if you are one of the top performers, so you have an incentive to perform. Let's say you pay $5 for a lottery ticket, where you're guaranteed to win $5 but can win $100. Is it predatory and unethical to you if you don't win the $100?
    - weard_beard 3y ago
      There is a thing that we all by convention understand: additional compensation. It is frequently tied to performance. Once given and cleared into a bank account it cannot be taken back. We call this a bonus. A loan, which must be paid back might be called a squirrel on mars but here on earth we don’t call it a bonus. A “benefit”? Maybe. Health insurance may retroactively renege on their promised coverage. 401ks are frequently embezzled. When these things happen it’s usually a pitiful, or illegal act worthy of derision. Like a predatory loan. You know what, I don’t think this is a benefit either. Let’s just call it a squirrel.
bandyaboot 3y ago
I don’t call it douchebaggery for anything that I’ve made up. They fired people right before the forgiveness date so the bonuses wouldn’t become effectively cash bonuses. That’s douchebaggery.
itake 3y ago
This isn't a $100k loan. The employee received a fraction of the $100k (due to taxes and tax withholding), but now may need to borrow money to cover their debt.
- leventonportera 3y ago
  Let's face it - you made all of that up.
  - itake 3y ago
    If the down votes you received don't tell you that you're wrong, maybe this will: https://www.crowe.com/insights/crowe-financial-services-tax-insights/clawback-payoffs-cost-more-than-you-think https://www.crowe.com/insights/crowe-financial-services-tax-... If it was me, I'd have to pay an accountant to help me too.
    - leventonportera 3y ago
      [dead]