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> In November 2019, I experienced my first panic attack while I was working from home. It was around 4 p.m., and my left pinky went completely numb. At first, I

> In November 2019, I experienced my first panic attack while I was working from home. It was around 4 p.m., and my left pinky went completely numb. At first, I ignored it, but it got worse: An hour in, my ears were ringing, and my heart was beating really fast. > One day, she experienced intense stress at work, which brought on a severe migraine that sent her to the emergency room. She knew she had to make changes and ultimately quit her agency job. These people made the right move. It's not worth sacrificing your health if you're able to get a decent job in a more relaxed environment elsewhere. With that said though, some people handle stressful situations really well, and others handle stressful situations poorly. One of the reasons these jobs pay so well is that they're stressful, and they need people who can handle that.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zeroCalories 3y ago
I think real world stress is something that academic institutions don't prepare you for. Unless you're doing unique research, there is always a solution, always a reasonable way forward. In the real world you'll be tasked with solving some bullshit problem where there is no good solution. What I notice with successful people, especially management, is that they are able to take control of the situation and reframe the problem into something tractable. In school you would be punished for doing something like that. In real life it's often necessary. I think it's a learnable skill, but some people just burn themselves out instead of adapting. Usually a mentor is someone that can help you with that.
- Reubend 3y ago
  I agree. Real world job performance often rewards you for bending the rules or reframing the problems you face, whereas academia rewards you for following a path set for you.
- rewmie 3y ago
  > I think real world stress is something that academic institutions don't prepare you for. Should it, though? Stress results from abuse and abusive working conditions, and a workforce should not be conditioned to take abusive relationships as normal or acceptable. I argue the opposite and go as far as to claim that software developers are in a dire need of a union. Having to work nights and weekends should not be tolerated in any industry, which includes also FANG jobs.
  - zeroCalories 3y ago
    >Should it, though? Stress results from abuse and abusive working conditions It doesn't have to be school, but you should learn how to manage stress. You can have a perfectly fine job and still get stressed out, or have a horrible job and manage fine. Personally I can handle a lot of stress well, and I enjoy the rewards that it brings. Infact, it's fun for me.
    - rewmie 3y ago
      > It doesn't have to be school, but you should learn how to manage stress. You can have a perfectly fine job and still get stressed out, or have a horrible job and manage fine. There's something awfully broken in a society that would argue that the entire youth of a nation should be conditioned to accept stress as normal or acceptable, and that stress should be considered normal in any working environment.
      - zeroCalories 3y ago
        I would say what's broken is a generation of youth that go out into the world thinking that they won't encounter stressful situations .
        rewmie 3y ago
        There's a colossal difference between encountering stressful situations and thinking it's normal that jobs should be so stressful so often that the national school curriculum should prepare people to endure mental and emotional abuse. There is no way around it: it's screwed up.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > successful people, especially management, is that they are able to take control of the situation and reframe the problem into something tractable. In school you would be punished for doing something like that Academia treats collaboration like it's cospiracy, treats leadership like it's mutiny, treats optimisation as lazyness and original thought as rebellion. And then we wonder why kids with good grades steuggle outside of school
oceanplexian 3y ago
So, I completely disagree. I work in tech, and I personally empathize how stress can get to you, but I came from a blue-collar family- as a kid I watched my dad risk his life to drive though an ice storm for some shitty job, eventually it almost cost him his life after a bad wreck. I saw him pick up construction gigs after his divorce, and he would tell me on a regular basis how he had to cover for a friend that shot a nail through his hand or fell off a roof. My point is, the 99%, or whatever we want to call them see people like us complaining about how our lives are so stressful as weak and embarrassing. Honestly, I have to agree. There are statistics to prove my point. Poor, working class countries have an almost non-existent rate of suicide and psychological issues. Clearly all the people saying we should be have a higher EQ and be accepting of mental health issues were full of it, and frankly, I’m waiting for them to admit it and society to take a new approach.
- doitLP 3y ago
  You have a point. But what is the cause then? That the fight for survival and chasing a bit of comfort and relaxation is actually mentally beneficial? Certainly seems so
- TideAd 3y ago
  This is a pretty rude generalization, though I get it. As you grow in this career I promise you'll see people with real, serious problems caused/exacerbated by their white-collar jobs. I don't think the difficulty of other careers means we shouldn't demand fair treatment for ourselves. Is letting ourselves get treated poorly supposed to help them?
- VincentEvans 3y ago
  > Poor, working class countries have an almost non-existent rate of suicide and psychological issues. Instead they have sky high alcoholism, substance abuse, and domestic violence. Also lol about non-existent “psychological issues” - I am sure they also “don’t have gays”. If that’s too indirect - associating societal stigma makes all kinds of issues “almost non-existent”.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > people like us complaining about how our lives are so stressful as weak and embarrassing The biologically correct way to deal with stress is to punch your boss in the face. Back in the day, a family member has done it, broke the guy's0 nose, says it was one his best days. These days we cant do that, corporate culture has us by the balls > Poor, working class countries have an almost non-existent rate of suicide That's fantasy - it's like saying that in year 1000 noone dies of cancer. They did, there jusy werent any doctors around to diagnose the problem and no statisticians to record it. I lived in a poor country, noone ever goes to a psycologist, they hide issues, and, if someone kills themselves, they will record it as something else to avoid the shame
chasd00 3y ago
I work in consulting the people I know a ring or two up the ladder all have weird ticks or unexplainable random medical issues. I have no desire to do that to myself, even their rewards are not that great. Certainly not worth becoming a messed up freak of a person, incredibly productive and knowledgeable but also an emotional and physical basket case.
- gardenhedge 3y ago
  Not in consulting but have the experienced the same. Some people get completely broken.
renewiltord 3y ago
Friend's friend made ten million plus a year. Banking. Got a stroke at 48. Quit. Still, for those years set up family for success.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

zeroCalories 3y ago

I think real world stress is something that academic institutions don't prepare you for. Unless you're doing unique research, there is always a solution, always a reasonable way forward. In the real world you'll be tasked with solving some bullshit problem where there is no good solution. What I notice with successful people, especially management, is that they are able to take control of the situation and reframe the problem into something tractable. In school you would be punished for doing something like that. In real life it's often necessary. I think it's a learnable skill, but some people just burn themselves out instead of adapting. Usually a mentor is someone that can help you with that.

Reubend 3y ago
I agree. Real world job performance often rewards you for bending the rules or reframing the problems you face, whereas academia rewards you for following a path set for you.
rewmie 3y ago
> I think real world stress is something that academic institutions don't prepare you for. Should it, though? Stress results from abuse and abusive working conditions, and a workforce should not be conditioned to take abusive relationships as normal or acceptable. I argue the opposite and go as far as to claim that software developers are in a dire need of a union. Having to work nights and weekends should not be tolerated in any industry, which includes also FANG jobs.
- zeroCalories 3y ago
  >Should it, though? Stress results from abuse and abusive working conditions It doesn't have to be school, but you should learn how to manage stress. You can have a perfectly fine job and still get stressed out, or have a horrible job and manage fine. Personally I can handle a lot of stress well, and I enjoy the rewards that it brings. Infact, it's fun for me.
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > It doesn't have to be school, but you should learn how to manage stress. You can have a perfectly fine job and still get stressed out, or have a horrible job and manage fine. There's something awfully broken in a society that would argue that the entire youth of a nation should be conditioned to accept stress as normal or acceptable, and that stress should be considered normal in any working environment.
    - zeroCalories 3y ago
      I would say what's broken is a generation of youth that go out into the world thinking that they won't encounter stressful situations .
      - rewmie 3y ago
        There's a colossal difference between encountering stressful situations and thinking it's normal that jobs should be so stressful so often that the national school curriculum should prepare people to endure mental and emotional abuse. There is no way around it: it's screwed up.
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> successful people, especially management, is that they are able to take control of the situation and reframe the problem into something tractable. In school you would be punished for doing something like that Academia treats collaboration like it's cospiracy, treats leadership like it's mutiny, treats optimisation as lazyness and original thought as rebellion. And then we wonder why kids with good grades steuggle outside of school

oceanplexian 3y ago

So, I completely disagree. I work in tech, and I personally empathize how stress can get to you, but I came from a blue-collar family- as a kid I watched my dad risk his life to drive though an ice storm for some shitty job, eventually it almost cost him his life after a bad wreck. I saw him pick up construction gigs after his divorce, and he would tell me on a regular basis how he had to cover for a friend that shot a nail through his hand or fell off a roof. My point is, the 99%, or whatever we want to call them see people like us complaining about how our lives are so stressful as weak and embarrassing. Honestly, I have to agree. There are statistics to prove my point. Poor, working class countries have an almost non-existent rate of suicide and psychological issues. Clearly all the people saying we should be have a higher EQ and be accepting of mental health issues were full of it, and frankly, I’m waiting for them to admit it and society to take a new approach.

doitLP 3y ago
You have a point. But what is the cause then? That the fight for survival and chasing a bit of comfort and relaxation is actually mentally beneficial? Certainly seems so
TideAd 3y ago
This is a pretty rude generalization, though I get it. As you grow in this career I promise you'll see people with real, serious problems caused/exacerbated by their white-collar jobs. I don't think the difficulty of other careers means we shouldn't demand fair treatment for ourselves. Is letting ourselves get treated poorly supposed to help them?
VincentEvans 3y ago
> Poor, working class countries have an almost non-existent rate of suicide and psychological issues. Instead they have sky high alcoholism, substance abuse, and domestic violence. Also lol about non-existent “psychological issues” - I am sure they also “don’t have gays”. If that’s too indirect - associating societal stigma makes all kinds of issues “almost non-existent”.
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> people like us complaining about how our lives are so stressful as weak and embarrassing The biologically correct way to deal with stress is to punch your boss in the face. Back in the day, a family member has done it, broke the guy's0 nose, says it was one his best days. These days we cant do that, corporate culture has us by the balls > Poor, working class countries have an almost non-existent rate of suicide That's fantasy - it's like saying that in year 1000 noone dies of cancer. They did, there jusy werent any doctors around to diagnose the problem and no statisticians to record it. I lived in a poor country, noone ever goes to a psycologist, they hide issues, and, if someone kills themselves, they will record it as something else to avoid the shame

chasd00 3y ago

I work in consulting the people I know a ring or two up the ladder all have weird ticks or unexplainable random medical issues. I have no desire to do that to myself, even their rewards are not that great. Certainly not worth becoming a messed up freak of a person, incredibly productive and knowledgeable but also an emotional and physical basket case.

gardenhedge 3y ago
Not in consulting but have the experienced the same. Some people get completely broken.

renewiltord 3y ago

Friend's friend made ten million plus a year. Banking. Got a stroke at 48. Quit. Still, for those years set up family for success.