I've seen shops hire product managers for INTERNAL customer facing apps, and then have the PMs basically not talk to those customers. They did instead talk ext

I've seen shops hire product managers for INTERNAL customer facing apps, and then have the PMs basically not talk to those customers. They did instead talk extensively to product & tech management as well as the c-suite. So tech people (even IC non-leads) end up on weekly calls with various internal stakeholders that the PM can't make (literally this is your job dude) and take the brunt of all the feedback/relationship management/etc with the trickier ones. The worst was when he said he would take the weekly calls with Asia users but wanted to pre-meet with me first and ask I ride along with the weekly user call for a while. So we would pre-meet and then he would ghost on the user call so I end up having two calls instead of one. Just cargo cult CTOs reading too many books and not actually looking at the evidence in front of their eyes.