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I wonder if part of the gap here is about whether a company is B2B or B2C. In my experience at a largely B2B company, the product managers are people that aren'

by foota 3y ago

I wonder if part of the gap here is about whether a company is B2B or B2C. In my experience at a largely B2B company, the product managers are people that aren't necessarily technical, but have experience in the relevant domain and meet with customers to find out what they need and coordinate launches etc., with them. I don't know if the same role makes as much sense at a B2C company, so maybe people are B2Bs see their value and people at B2C companies don't as much?

steveBK123 3y ago
I've seen shops hire product managers for INTERNAL customer facing apps, and then have the PMs basically not talk to those customers. They did instead talk extensively to product & tech management as well as the c-suite. So tech people (even IC non-leads) end up on weekly calls with various internal stakeholders that the PM can't make (literally this is your job dude) and take the brunt of all the feedback/relationship management/etc with the trickier ones. The worst was when he said he would take the weekly calls with Asia users but wanted to pre-meet with me first and ask I ride along with the weekly user call for a while. So we would pre-meet and then he would ghost on the user call so I end up having two calls instead of one. Just cargo cult CTOs reading too many books and not actually looking at the evidence in front of their eyes.
braza 3y ago
Same experience, but I have one hypothesis: in B2C the “client” after some point become some abstract entity where people ship code/product to. A great PM can talk with those masses and extract exactly what needs to be done. This is a very hard skill. In B2C the customer is way clearer and the relationship is everything and it’s quite hard a bad professional hide for long.
j45 3y ago
The issue too often is business analysts wanting to be product managers when technical analysts may enable to learn the role better. TA’s will devour the BA’s because tech folks can learn business easier than the other way around. Still, BA’s can learn the details and get more fluent in working with them.
plorkyeran 3y ago
My experience with B2B PMs is that exactly one that I've worked with was amazing and the rest were just an awful intermediary that added a day of latency to any communication with our contact at customers and often managed to mangle things too.

by foota 3y ago

steveBK123 3y ago

I've seen shops hire product managers for INTERNAL customer facing apps, and then have the PMs basically not talk to those customers. They did instead talk extensively to product & tech management as well as the c-suite. So tech people (even IC non-leads) end up on weekly calls with various internal stakeholders that the PM can't make (literally this is your job dude) and take the brunt of all the feedback/relationship management/etc with the trickier ones. The worst was when he said he would take the weekly calls with Asia users but wanted to pre-meet with me first and ask I ride along with the weekly user call for a while. So we would pre-meet and then he would ghost on the user call so I end up having two calls instead of one. Just cargo cult CTOs reading too many books and not actually looking at the evidence in front of their eyes.

braza 3y ago

Same experience, but I have one hypothesis: in B2C the “client” after some point become some abstract entity where people ship code/product to. A great PM can talk with those masses and extract exactly what needs to be done. This is a very hard skill. In B2C the customer is way clearer and the relationship is everything and it’s quite hard a bad professional hide for long.

j45 3y ago

The issue too often is business analysts wanting to be product managers when technical analysts may enable to learn the role better. TA’s will devour the BA’s because tech folks can learn business easier than the other way around. Still, BA’s can learn the details and get more fluent in working with them.

plorkyeran 3y ago

My experience with B2B PMs is that exactly one that I've worked with was amazing and the rest were just an awful intermediary that added a day of latency to any communication with our contact at customers and often managed to mangle things too.