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> Ive had chronic health issues for 3 years now without much relief, despite having been to the doctors office 20+ in that time. This is the problem with all o
by robomartin 3y ago
> Ive had chronic health issues for 3 years now without much relief, despite having been to the doctors office 20+ in that time.
This is the problem with all of these systems that try to violate the laws of physics (aka: free market economics). They invariably results in substandard care, if you receive care at all. Keeping people alive isn't the same thing as actually solving problems with quality care.
This is my big gripe with the ACA (Obamacare) in the US. It's a shit system that was sold as a quality system. There are so many things wrong with it I am sick of listing them.
My wife is a doctor, so I've been privy to behind the scenes effects. If you think your doctor gives a shit about you when you come to the office with one of the stupid plans, enjoy the fantasy.
Doctors do care. However, they can't see thousands of patients at a loss. They have bills to pay, just like anyone else. More than anyone else, actually. And do, what happens in a lot of practices, is that doctors are forced to become numb to their caring impulse upon realizing that there's a dividing line between quality care and going broke. And so, they churn through patients at a rapid rate because the only way to make it is quantity.
My wife was telling me that the office next to hers has four PA's. They each see 40 to 50 people per day. That's an average of 10 minutes per patient. That's not care. That's medical professionals being forced by a shit system to push on the cash register button as quickly as they are able to just to make it.
It is important to keep context in mind when thinking about some of these things. Imagine an office with a couple of MD's, a few PA's, a few medical assistants and one or two administrators. Collectively, this is a group of people with somewhere around, say, $1.5 million dollars in student loans to repay. They each have homes, cars, kids and other bills to support.
That sets-up a situation where it is impossible for that medical practice to exist below a certain revenue threshold. More accurately, below a certain profit level. If the insurance system they have to work with is shit, they have two options: Close the doors and everyone becomes an Uber driver or keep them open and run as many people as possible through the doors with a $10 to $50 per person gross profit probability per person.
No, do the math. Don't just react to this through emotion. People have to get paid for their work, just like you.
So, let's assume $50 per person average profit (not sure that's a good assumption, it depends on the practice). What I mean by "profit" here is what you get paid (not what you bill, because sometimes you don't get what you bill) vs. what it costs for a medical professional (say, a PA) to provide that service.
Now assume you can churn through 100 people per day. That means $5,000 per day in gross profit. If you are open 20 days per month, the gross profit is $100K per month.
You now have to pay, say $25K per month for rent, utilities, insurance and various other expenses. That means $80K per month. Let's say two MD's own the practice and each gets paid $25K per month salary. You are left with $30K in the bank. You likely have other expenses that will easily consume half of that, cleaning, legal, accounting, software licenses, IT, etc. You are now down to $15K. Which is a formula for going bankrupt.
What do you do? Well, you have to crunch through more people per day and try to maintain the same cost structure per patient. So, you try to see 150 to 200 people per day --if you can, not all practices can do that-- and pump them through as fast as possible. In other words, you cannot prioritize quality care.
Anyone thinking "Just provide better care and bill for it". It doesn't work that way. Say you decide to see only 50 patients per day. Obamacare shit plans are not going to magically pay you double for taking someone's pressure and temperature or going through a basic diagnostic check. The limit function here is that these plans are shit, they don't pay for quality care, they pay for delivering the fantasy of having medical care.
Not to mention the horrible problems of Medicaid/Medicare. That's another half dozen paragraphs.
Yes, everyone should have access to *quality* healthcare at a reasonable cost. No, that isn't possible if imbeciles in government make the decisions. These are the same people who, through incompetence and mismanagement can't seem to give us a world without war and misery. What makes anyone think they can actually deliver solid quality healthcare?
BTW, my wife and her partners finally had enough. They launched a boutique medical care office. They provide high quality care at a reasonable price. Patients are well taken care of, employees make a sustainable salary and nobody has to engage in the soul-crushing practice of treating patients like cattle.
- penjelly 3y agoi already understand the economics, these types of systems exist everywhere, usually to the detriment of everyone. However, all they need to do is not deflect me from specialist care, so im not sure it applies 100% here. Check back in a month when i go to the office again and insist on seeing a specialist.
- robomartin 3y agoMine was more of a general comment on these types of systems rather than an explanation for what you are going through. I have no clue why they are treating you in the way you describe. It might be interesting if you could ask them why they haven't referred you. Even more interesting if they gave you an honest answer. Good luck.
- penjelly 3y agomy best guess is theyre trying not to "over-treat" me, the problem being its a different doctor every single time i go in, so if they all do that i never get anywhere if i have a real issue. also, at my office its tough to get followups with the same doctor. Note that its partly my own fault for backing down when they do deflect me though, but its hard to argue with a doctor when they say "lets just try this for now". Also, Fwiw i didnt downvote you, im not sure why you were downvoted.
- robomartin 3y ago> its hard to argue with a doctor when they say "lets just try this for now". Yeah, I've run into "god complex" with doctors. It's a problem. When my wife was in medical school she started to get sick and wasn't getting better. She went to probably half a dozen doctors. The outcomes were of the kind you describe "let's try this for now". In the meantime, she was getting sicker and sicker. Ultimately, she did her own research and was able to identify a potential diagnosis. She booked a visit with a specialist. As soon as she entered his office he said: You have a pituitary gland tumor, we have to operate immediately. This affliction presents very specific physical changes. She was in the hospital within a week. Six months later she was back to normal. The doctor said she was pretty much on a path straight to death and, had it not been for her self-diagnosis, that might have been the outcome within a year. There are many problems in healthcare, cost and insurance are just two of them. > Also, Fwiw i didnt downvote you, im not sure why you were downvoted. I appreciate that. Right or wrong, for some reason I have always had this image of a petulant immature child downvoting on HN rather than engaging in conversation. Also right or wrong, I also attribute some of this to the serious failure of our system of education to graduate people who can actually think. They have elevated ignoring reality to a virtue and seem really proud of it. I avoid hiring these kinds of people like the plague, they have shit for brains.