6 ms·

I like Sagan, but he didn’t make these rules for a post truth world, unfortunately. There were certainly well funded lies in his day, but right now we are seein

by wredue 3y ago

I like Sagan, but he didn’t make these rules for a post truth world, unfortunately. There were certainly well funded lies in his day, but right now we are seeing massive investment, easily rivalling a large tech corporation or a Disney media empire, in to creating “news” orgs who’s specific goal is to lie, muddy waters, sow discord, and otherwise mislead the public, and who are seen as independent bodies of verification. It’s much more difficult now to find real facts, which is actually insane given that real facts should be available with the click of a button these days.

omgwtfbyobbq 3y ago
I think the increase in spending on spreading/amplifying certain kinds of information is because there's a greater depth and breath of information available now that people can and are using to derive their own opinion. Influencing people was less expensive when media/news/information/etc was relatively limited.
- wredue 3y ago
  Yeah, but what Sagan is trying to give is a framework for forming opinions based on reality. While it’s a good start, it’s missing imperative steps like “if Fox News is your independent verification, it’s probably a lie”. As stated, we are in a post-truth world, and a framework from Sagan era for forming opinions with a factual justification is much more difficult.
demondemidi 3y ago
Hello: "Flood the channels with shit." - Steve Bannon Goodbye: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine
- Animats 3y ago
  H. R. McMaster credits Putin's people with that concept. Until recently, propaganda was promoting your position. Russia came up with the breakthrough of just promoting extremists of all stripes to reduce the credibility of all news. This is a form of tactical misdirection. "To sow confusion and reap inaction", as Willie Sutton, the bank robber and prison escapee, put it. It wasn't really feasible at scale before the Internet, because it takes a large number of anonymous sources to make it go.

by wredue 3y ago

omgwtfbyobbq 3y ago

I think the increase in spending on spreading/amplifying certain kinds of information is because there's a greater depth and breath of information available now that people can and are using to derive their own opinion. Influencing people was less expensive when media/news/information/etc was relatively limited.

wredue 3y ago
Yeah, but what Sagan is trying to give is a framework for forming opinions based on reality. While it’s a good start, it’s missing imperative steps like “if Fox News is your independent verification, it’s probably a lie”. As stated, we are in a post-truth world, and a framework from Sagan era for forming opinions with a factual justification is much more difficult.

demondemidi 3y ago

Hello: "Flood the channels with shit." - Steve Bannon Goodbye: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine

Animats 3y ago
H. R. McMaster credits Putin's people with that concept. Until recently, propaganda was promoting your position. Russia came up with the breakthrough of just promoting extremists of all stripes to reduce the credibility of all news. This is a form of tactical misdirection. "To sow confusion and reap inaction", as Willie Sutton, the bank robber and prison escapee, put it. It wasn't really feasible at scale before the Internet, because it takes a large number of anonymous sources to make it go.