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It's a real problem. There's a huge overlap between "things that can be abused by ads" and "things that allow boundary-pushing products". On Desktop, historica

It's a real problem. There's a huge overlap between "things that can be abused by ads" and "things that allow boundary-pushing products". On Desktop, historically we chose the "buyer beware" route which, for all its 10-IE6-toolbars flaws, led to an environment that felt like it was full of possibilities. On Mobile we are going for a "you get your little sandbox" route, which delegates innovation to the OS vendors only.

Analemma_ 3y ago
I understand the frustration, but it is a different threat model. Your phone more-or-less knows your exact location at all times (and has to, by design). In my view this calls for a different set of tradeoffs re: application permissions.
- ajsnigrutin 3y ago
  And not just location, also who you communicate with (contacts and "phone" permissions), are you currently walking/driving/sitting still, who is around you (wifi and location/bluetooth permissions), it can record audio/video (camera, mic permissions), and it's al based on the user knowing enough to allow or disallow those permissions when needed.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    By restricting full-screen, you're punishing the top 85+% of users who are fully capable of understanding what a permission ask for "Is allowed to display full screen while locked" is asking. Generally spekaing, the race to design everything for the bottom 10% of users is resulting is a world of forced conformity, severe artificial limitations, and basically the Simpsons episode where Homer bubble wraps the entire playground, but in a tech sense.
- iamcalledrob 3y ago
  Right. But there has to be a better model than delegating innovation to Apple and Google. It's a huge conflict of interest too, since they are both Ad companies. We're heading down a path where there are products that only Apple and Google can build, and it's a huge problem for the ecosystem.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    Putting Apple in the same basket as Google in terms of ads is just misleading.
robertlagrant 3y ago
These are both outgrowths of where they came from. Desktops came along in the 1970s as (relatively) powerful do-anything machines. Phones came along as simple phone (and later SMS)-only devices that have gradually grown more advanced features.

Analemma_ 3y ago

I understand the frustration, but it is a different threat model. Your phone more-or-less knows your exact location at all times (and has to, by design). In my view this calls for a different set of tradeoffs re: application permissions.

ajsnigrutin 3y ago
And not just location, also who you communicate with (contacts and "phone" permissions), are you currently walking/driving/sitting still, who is around you (wifi and location/bluetooth permissions), it can record audio/video (camera, mic permissions), and it's al based on the user knowing enough to allow or disallow those permissions when needed.
- freedomben 3y ago
  By restricting full-screen, you're punishing the top 85+% of users who are fully capable of understanding what a permission ask for "Is allowed to display full screen while locked" is asking. Generally spekaing, the race to design everything for the bottom 10% of users is resulting is a world of forced conformity, severe artificial limitations, and basically the Simpsons episode where Homer bubble wraps the entire playground, but in a tech sense.
iamcalledrob 3y ago
Right. But there has to be a better model than delegating innovation to Apple and Google. It's a huge conflict of interest too, since they are both Ad companies. We're heading down a path where there are products that only Apple and Google can build, and it's a huge problem for the ecosystem.
- kaba0 3y ago
  Putting Apple in the same basket as Google in terms of ads is just misleading.

robertlagrant 3y ago

These are both outgrowths of where they came from. Desktops came along in the 1970s as (relatively) powerful do-anything machines. Phones came along as simple phone (and later SMS)-only devices that have gradually grown more advanced features.