5 ms·

1000%, Ive left teams and jobs over people "not giving a shit". One of the quickest path to burn out.

drzaiusx11 3y ago
Likewise, and have been burned enough times that I can _usually_ recognize the patterns within my first few weeks at an org (assuming they were clever enough to "hide" the institutional level problems during the interview process.) A sample of my "Giving a shit" checklist includes: Do they not utilize metrics or care when they tank? Do the rank and file engineers have a general malase and use terms like "not my problem" with impunity? Does management continually deprioritize critical "keep the lights on" work eg security patches WHEN they are fully aware of the repercussions (this knowing is key.) List of red flags goes on. No org is perfect, but why endure the pain when it can be avoided. Especially so when it can easily be recognized early enough in many cases.
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  During my IBEW apprenticeship, I worked at two several-MW datacenters. One was a public agency, the other a private enterprise. Recently the private data center was sold to some international holding company, and it brought a smile to my face recollecting a conversation I had once with [now-former] CEO: "The data center is just a trick pony show we use to sell our real product." Glad they did well on the sale to new foreign owners. Definitional evil.
  - Geezus_42 3y ago
    Zix/Appriver?
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
  My company uses metrics and I hate it. The best way to improve metrics? Decrease vertical height so you can fit more shit on the page. Is this actually good for anyone? Probably not.
  - Bjartr 3y ago
    Actually giving a shit means you care about whether or not you're pursuing the right metrics
  - drzaiusx11 3y ago
    Either you're not measuring anything useful with your current metrics or you fall into not giving a shit category
- spacecadet 3y ago
  Duuude, I bailed on a startup a year ago that gas lit the shit out of me during interviews (I had red flags but stupidly ignored them) and left in the first 2 weeks when all of the red confirmed true. 8 months later, lay offs.
- captainmuon 3y ago
  > Does management continually deprioritize critical "keep the lights on" work eg security patches WHEN they are fully aware of the repercussions (this knowing is key.) One variant is when Management punishes you for bringing something up by making it your task to then fix it. I think they don't do this on purpose, they often just don't think about it. And it leads to a culture of "don't tell the boss". I've seen some really dire problems swept under the carpet because of this.
rubslopes 3y ago
I thought you were talking about Jony Ive for a second.
chiefalchemist 3y ago
Ditto. Kinda. Most ppl do give a shit. The disconnect comes from what they give a shit about. For example: Head of agency only gives a shit about billable hours, not sustainable revenue. CTO gives a shit about shiny new tech objects, not how appropriate they are for the news of the client. Manager gives a shit about over-committing and shipping gawd-awful soltions, and not the integrity and esteem of the team. Team members give a shit about not making waves, and bad processes and lack of growth (i.e., learning new things) persist. Designer gives a shit about the aesthetics of the design, not about how it's going to compromise the UX. And so on. I've left more than one job because I'm not wired to be complicit (in someone else self-destructive shit giving), and because I give a shit about clients and users, as well as being able to look at myself in the mirror.
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  >as well as being able to look at myself in the mirror. This is so tantamount to "living a good life." I have two attorney brothers, and the things they fight for... jfc. Hired bullies. Hound dogs. At the mercy of [well-]funding.
- qaisjp 3y ago
  This is so wise. I'm gonna ask my teammates next week about what it is in their job that they give a shit about.

Likewise, and have been burned enough times that I can _usually_ recognize the patterns within my first few weeks at an org (assuming they were clever enough to "hide" the institutional level problems during the interview process.) A sample of my "Giving a shit" checklist includes: Do they not utilize metrics or care when they tank? Do the rank and file engineers have a general malase and use terms like "not my problem" with impunity? Does management continually deprioritize critical "keep the lights on" work eg security patches WHEN they are fully aware of the repercussions (this knowing is key.) List of red flags goes on. No org is perfect, but why endure the pain when it can be avoided. Especially so when it can easily be recognized early enough in many cases.

ProllyInfamous 3y ago
During my IBEW apprenticeship, I worked at two several-MW datacenters. One was a public agency, the other a private enterprise. Recently the private data center was sold to some international holding company, and it brought a smile to my face recollecting a conversation I had once with [now-former] CEO: "The data center is just a trick pony show we use to sell our real product." Glad they did well on the sale to new foreign owners. Definitional evil.
- Geezus_42 3y ago
  Zix/Appriver?
8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
My company uses metrics and I hate it. The best way to improve metrics? Decrease vertical height so you can fit more shit on the page. Is this actually good for anyone? Probably not.
- Bjartr 3y ago
  Actually giving a shit means you care about whether or not you're pursuing the right metrics
- drzaiusx11 3y ago
  Either you're not measuring anything useful with your current metrics or you fall into not giving a shit category
spacecadet 3y ago
Duuude, I bailed on a startup a year ago that gas lit the shit out of me during interviews (I had red flags but stupidly ignored them) and left in the first 2 weeks when all of the red confirmed true. 8 months later, lay offs.
captainmuon 3y ago
> Does management continually deprioritize critical "keep the lights on" work eg security patches WHEN they are fully aware of the repercussions (this knowing is key.) One variant is when Management punishes you for bringing something up by making it your task to then fix it. I think they don't do this on purpose, they often just don't think about it. And it leads to a culture of "don't tell the boss". I've seen some really dire problems swept under the carpet because of this.

rubslopes 3y ago

I thought you were talking about Jony Ive for a second.

chiefalchemist 3y ago

Ditto. Kinda. Most ppl do give a shit. The disconnect comes from what they give a shit about. For example: Head of agency only gives a shit about billable hours, not sustainable revenue. CTO gives a shit about shiny new tech objects, not how appropriate they are for the news of the client. Manager gives a shit about over-committing and shipping gawd-awful soltions, and not the integrity and esteem of the team. Team members give a shit about not making waves, and bad processes and lack of growth (i.e., learning new things) persist. Designer gives a shit about the aesthetics of the design, not about how it's going to compromise the UX. And so on. I've left more than one job because I'm not wired to be complicit (in someone else self-destructive shit giving), and because I give a shit about clients and users, as well as being able to look at myself in the mirror.

ProllyInfamous 3y ago
>as well as being able to look at myself in the mirror. This is so tantamount to "living a good life." I have two attorney brothers, and the things they fight for... jfc. Hired bullies. Hound dogs. At the mercy of [well-]funding.
qaisjp 3y ago
This is so wise. I'm gonna ask my teammates next week about what it is in their job that they give a shit about.