4 ms·

I’m a completely different counter point. This is typed on my phone. I am a mess with dating and sought help in the seduction community around 2008 as a teen.

I’m a completely different counter point. This is typed on my phone. I am a mess with dating and sought help in the seduction community around 2008 as a teen. There I learned about the value of meditation and Buddhist ethics as my first cornerstone for dating. My second cornerstone for dating came when I understood what my true style of playfulness is since childhood. I have a lot of imagination that I consider to be Disney-like. And I would use that as my “social glue” because I basically showed anyone I talked to the inner workings of my mind while doing that. The third cornerstone was to study positive psychology (Tal Ben Shahar, Harvard). I read many scientific articles. Shout out to Seligman and Learned Optimism as well and to the HEXACO personality inventory and to locus of control/coping styles and to attachment theory. The fourth cornerstone was to travel, in order to loosen up and expand my view/horizon. Using these 4 cornerstones - while having a hacker mindset - the seduction community helped me to find my own style of how I wanted to date. It took 2.5 years of only rejections. I also took an ethic course early on (from Yale or Harvard - I forgot). The reason is because many ideas that were mentioned were toxic. Things like: insulting people for social status, being an “alpha male” or using scripted stories. I immediately steered clear from those. When you are hyper critical (and clueless - like I was) then the seduction community offers good advice. If you copy/paste whatever they do, then it is likely that one might develop a toxic personality. When I used Tinder a year ago, I started out like anyone else. I put a reasonable bio, reasonable pictures (with hobbies and things I valued). I got one match that month. I realized that in the online dating arena that I was clueless again. So I decided to use my hacker mindset and looked at advice from the seduction community. My hacker mindset allowed me to autoswipe 200k profiles with the simplest JS ever (10 minutes of coding) and the seduction community gave the advice to edit your pictures. I thought about the ethics of picture editing and decided that I could do a few test dates to see if anyone would notice. No one noticed and most dates actually went really well. I decided it was therefore ethical since they would see me in real life anyway. It made me realize that people on Tinder use the peripheral route of the elaboration-likelihood model in consumer psychology. That is to say: profiles are more treated like an impulse purchase and much less like the decision-making process of buying a house. In fact, it is only during the first date that you get an actual fair consideration. This solidified my ethical justification in getting as many matches as possible and get them on a real life date as soon as possible. Another justification is: their environment is toxic so I need to do some unconventional things in order to thrive. I never got banned. I don’t autoswipe fast, no need. One per 10 seconds is enough, just let it churn. Using this strategy I got 150 matches of women I fancied per month. That is a whole lot better than the reasonable/authentic approach which gained me 1 match per month. I went on 26 dates (1 per week) and around the 26th date I found someone special and with her I am in a relationship. I’m hardcore when it comes to dating. I know I have to be. If am not, then no one sees me. But when I flip the switch and am intentional about it, then some women see me. When I am in a relationship, I am fully myself - it is just the first 10 to 15 minutes of the interaction that needs to be tweaked a little. All women that became my GF know my entire story quite soon after we enter in a relationship (sometimes before even). They are all fine with it and some actually agree that if I wouldn’t put the effort in then no one would see me standing. It is what it is. But with careful conscious effort Tinder works. It is more effective for me than any other way of meeting women (night club, sport club, via friends, bold approaches during the day). So yea +1 for online dating from my side. It saved me a bunch of time after learning the ropes.

groestl 3y ago
> attachment theory That alone, and being mindful about it with yourself and with your fellow humans, sets you apart from so many others that I imagine you a good partner to be with. Congrats to your journey.
- mettamage 3y ago
  It definitely helps :) To be honest, I only recently integrated this to a good enough level. I've had it 8 years ago for the first time in my psychology lectures. The issue is that at uni it only gets discussed intellectually, it wasn't clear to me what my attachment style is and how it varies in different situations - and more importantly: how anxious/avoidant/secure attachment feels.
_yb2s 3y ago
You are studying dating like it’s some sort of academic discipline. I think it’s mostly an emotional and even carnal physical thing. You mostly need to get out of your head and in touch with your body and emotions. IMO pick up artists are mostly super awkward and non authentic seeming. The confidence is a thin veneer that falls short once the script runs out. I do what my instincts and body tell me to do with a partner, but was afraid and culturally conditioned not to do. I hold her hand and look her strongly in the eye. In bed I was shocked to find that I am extremely aggressive now, even violent… my partner usually gets at least some minor injuries, but has a good time. Maybe not everyone wants that, but the women compatible with me do.
- mettamage 3y ago
  > You are studying dating like it’s some sort of academic discipline. Yep. It works for me. It works well. > I think it’s mostly an emotional and even carnal physical thing. This is covered by one of my cornerstones: meditation. Mindfulness meditation increases the insula. The insula maps emotional responses to body sensations. That was what I knew going into it. Then I did 43 days of 10 hour meditation. Going out of it, I understood equanimity, sensitivity to body sensations, craving, aversion, thought formation in response to sensations (and observing/experiencing having no free will), intellectual knowledge, behavioral knowledge, intuitive/emotional/tacit knowledge, the difference between ethics on an intellectual level vs knowing it on an emotional level (an ethical decision on an emotional level manifests as a form of pain). I learned a lot with meditation, much more than I'm describing. Combined with my own literature review on when intuition is reliable for giving accurate/correct ideas I also knew when/how to feel and trust my intuition. So the training guidelines were intellectual, the actual training was a strong experience in emotional growth. And that's how the intellect while being completely in the dark with emotions can help one to train their own emotions. It also gives a strong use-case for treating this as an academic discipline. The intellect gives the map, the emotional journey is walking through the territory. It's the same like going to the gym. You do a pushup, you feel stuff. But you're also recording yourself for your form, and in that recording you give yourself intellectual critique. You try it again, in the recording you notice that you're making the same mistake. Now the intellect is noticing that despite your best effort, you made the same mistake. You try and try again. After the 5th try, you're not making that specific mistake in form anymore. Did the intellect help? No, it helped at the first and second try, the other few tries was you and your body just trying things out until you got to a different state that you gave you some solid footing. There's nothing intellectual about that, yet it sounds intellectual describing it in language like this. Make no mistake though, it isn't. Same with meditation and applying it to dating. Because of meditation, I gained a lot of emotional/intuitive knowledge, I integrated it with my intellect to make the map way sharper. Playfulness: also an emotional journey. Studying positive psychology: an intellectual journey. Practicing elements of positive psychology: an emotional journey. I am a pessimist by nature and trained myself to become an optimist since it's the empirical choice to make if you want to be happier in life (and have no job that is related to security in any way shape or form). Making that training choice? That's intellectual. Seeing that life is full of possibilities and experiencing that? Goosebumps over my body. Radiating that to people around me including my dates? That's just pure magic as they're feeding it back to you. Travel: my biggest reason to travel is due to a sense in curiosity. My curiosity is both intellectual and emotional. But from a dating strategic standpoint it's mostly an intellectual decision. > You mostly need to get out of your head and in touch with your body and emotions. Meditation works. I'd change this to: you need to know when to be out of your head and in touch with your body and emotions. You also need to know when to be in your head and think strategically. Personally, when I'm alone: strategic thinking. When I'm with someone: mostly in my body/emotions and let the thinking go (mostly) - connecting with someone is indeed an inherently emotional experience. > IMO pick up artists are mostly super awkward and non authentic seeming. Yep > The confidence is a thin veneer that falls short once the script runs out. I wrote that I don't use scripts. Also read into that that not all pick up artists use scripts. Hell, I even told my entire method to my dates just after their date and told them why it works. I always got back: yep, makes sense, and it worked! By having a method that works even when you tell them (afterwards but upfront should also be possible) how it works and it still works then it's easy to be authentic. Being able to improv makes it easy to not run out of things to say. The community runs deep into different sub-branches, most of which are unknown to the public eye. Using just standard media (or standard forums even) runs the risk of stereotyping pickup artists just as easily as one stereotypes a hacker as a criminal or a feminist as a man hating person - all these stereotypes are a mischaracterization of the complexity that these subcultures have. I should know, I've been deep into all 3 of them. Also, for clarification: I'm not a pickup artist and never was one. I am however a feminist (in the gender equality sense of the word) and am definitely a hacker (in the curious about tech/the world sense of the word and sometimes breaking things to see how they work). > I do what my instincts and body tell me to do with a partner, but was afraid and culturally conditioned not to do. The women compatible with me are - like me - high in imagination and capable of holding their own intellectually.

groestl 3y ago

> attachment theory That alone, and being mindful about it with yourself and with your fellow humans, sets you apart from so many others that I imagine you a good partner to be with. Congrats to your journey.

mettamage 3y ago
It definitely helps :) To be honest, I only recently integrated this to a good enough level. I've had it 8 years ago for the first time in my psychology lectures. The issue is that at uni it only gets discussed intellectually, it wasn't clear to me what my attachment style is and how it varies in different situations - and more importantly: how anxious/avoidant/secure attachment feels.

_yb2s 3y ago

You are studying dating like it’s some sort of academic discipline. I think it’s mostly an emotional and even carnal physical thing. You mostly need to get out of your head and in touch with your body and emotions. IMO pick up artists are mostly super awkward and non authentic seeming. The confidence is a thin veneer that falls short once the script runs out. I do what my instincts and body tell me to do with a partner, but was afraid and culturally conditioned not to do. I hold her hand and look her strongly in the eye. In bed I was shocked to find that I am extremely aggressive now, even violent… my partner usually gets at least some minor injuries, but has a good time. Maybe not everyone wants that, but the women compatible with me do.

mettamage 3y ago
> You are studying dating like it’s some sort of academic discipline. Yep. It works for me. It works well. > I think it’s mostly an emotional and even carnal physical thing. This is covered by one of my cornerstones: meditation. Mindfulness meditation increases the insula. The insula maps emotional responses to body sensations. That was what I knew going into it. Then I did 43 days of 10 hour meditation. Going out of it, I understood equanimity, sensitivity to body sensations, craving, aversion, thought formation in response to sensations (and observing/experiencing having no free will), intellectual knowledge, behavioral knowledge, intuitive/emotional/tacit knowledge, the difference between ethics on an intellectual level vs knowing it on an emotional level (an ethical decision on an emotional level manifests as a form of pain). I learned a lot with meditation, much more than I'm describing. Combined with my own literature review on when intuition is reliable for giving accurate/correct ideas I also knew when/how to feel and trust my intuition. So the training guidelines were intellectual, the actual training was a strong experience in emotional growth. And that's how the intellect while being completely in the dark with emotions can help one to train their own emotions. It also gives a strong use-case for treating this as an academic discipline. The intellect gives the map, the emotional journey is walking through the territory. It's the same like going to the gym. You do a pushup, you feel stuff. But you're also recording yourself for your form, and in that recording you give yourself intellectual critique. You try it again, in the recording you notice that you're making the same mistake. Now the intellect is noticing that despite your best effort, you made the same mistake. You try and try again. After the 5th try, you're not making that specific mistake in form anymore. Did the intellect help? No, it helped at the first and second try, the other few tries was you and your body just trying things out until you got to a different state that you gave you some solid footing. There's nothing intellectual about that, yet it sounds intellectual describing it in language like this. Make no mistake though, it isn't. Same with meditation and applying it to dating. Because of meditation, I gained a lot of emotional/intuitive knowledge, I integrated it with my intellect to make the map way sharper. Playfulness: also an emotional journey. Studying positive psychology: an intellectual journey. Practicing elements of positive psychology: an emotional journey. I am a pessimist by nature and trained myself to become an optimist since it's the empirical choice to make if you want to be happier in life (and have no job that is related to security in any way shape or form). Making that training choice? That's intellectual. Seeing that life is full of possibilities and experiencing that? Goosebumps over my body. Radiating that to people around me including my dates? That's just pure magic as they're feeding it back to you. Travel: my biggest reason to travel is due to a sense in curiosity. My curiosity is both intellectual and emotional. But from a dating strategic standpoint it's mostly an intellectual decision. > You mostly need to get out of your head and in touch with your body and emotions. Meditation works. I'd change this to: you need to know when to be out of your head and in touch with your body and emotions. You also need to know when to be in your head and think strategically. Personally, when I'm alone: strategic thinking. When I'm with someone: mostly in my body/emotions and let the thinking go (mostly) - connecting with someone is indeed an inherently emotional experience. > IMO pick up artists are mostly super awkward and non authentic seeming. Yep > The confidence is a thin veneer that falls short once the script runs out. I wrote that I don't use scripts. Also read into that that not all pick up artists use scripts. Hell, I even told my entire method to my dates just after their date and told them why it works. I always got back: yep, makes sense, and it worked! By having a method that works even when you tell them (afterwards but upfront should also be possible) how it works and it still works then it's easy to be authentic. Being able to improv makes it easy to not run out of things to say. The community runs deep into different sub-branches, most of which are unknown to the public eye. Using just standard media (or standard forums even) runs the risk of stereotyping pickup artists just as easily as one stereotypes a hacker as a criminal or a feminist as a man hating person - all these stereotypes are a mischaracterization of the complexity that these subcultures have. I should know, I've been deep into all 3 of them. Also, for clarification: I'm not a pickup artist and never was one. I am however a feminist (in the gender equality sense of the word) and am definitely a hacker (in the curious about tech/the world sense of the word and sometimes breaking things to see how they work). > I do what my instincts and body tell me to do with a partner, but was afraid and culturally conditioned not to do. The women compatible with me are - like me - high in imagination and capable of holding their own intellectually.