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Meeting with very specific expectations, I might add. My gay friends using grinder don't expect it to be full-filling, they expect it to be pleasurable. Pleas

Meeting with very specific expectations, I might add. My gay friends using grinder don't expect it to be full-filling, they expect it to be pleasurable. Pleasure is nice, but it doesn't sustain happiness. And intense pleasures that are easy to have regularly mess up with your dopamine system. It's fine if you only have one part of your life like this. The rest balance it out. And we all need fun. E.G: one of my friends is deeply involved in teaching kids, another one is a very dedicated doctor, and so forth. In that case it's healthy.

kredd 3y ago
I was on board with your reasoning, but the end tail is just gatekeeping happiness. People have been satisfied with “simple pleasures” that made them happy throughout centuries. It’s close to saying “you’re not listening to the right kind of music, listening to rock is unhealthy!”. I do agree with you that when people use apps, they should set correct expectations. I think it’s the unmet expectations that are causing problems.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > but the end tail is just gatekeeping happiness How can this be gatekeeping? It's a conversation. Saying "repeated shallow dopamine hits will make it harder for you to build long term joy" isn't stopping anyone from doing anything. It's just a proposition. > People have been satisfied with “simple pleasures” that made them happy throughout centuries I don't think this is really...anything. Wisdom tends towards building for the long term and delayed gratification, not short termism at the expense of the long term. Being happy at seeing a beautiful sunset is at the expense of nothing, which is the difference being proposed.
- lazide 3y ago
  They’re referring to the hedonic treadmill, which is a thing. Heroin feels really good, which is why it’s dangerous. Because it feels too good, for what it actually does to you, and that’s a trap for a decent percentage of the population.
- BiteCode_dev 3y ago
  Not, it's not about the nature of pleasure. Netflix in itself is not a problem. Filling your life with it is. Which is easy to do because it's intense dopamine effects for little effort.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  Some simple pleasures are fine. Your entire life being nothing but simple pleasures (simple job, simple hobby, simple diet, simple goals etc.) makes you a simple person. I feel like thars why some people turn to making a family. Raising kids is never simple and it's not as easy to back out as trying a new hobby. Then again, divorces are through the roof as well, so maybe that is also failing at large.
  - kredd 3y ago
    My usual perspective on life — it is absolutely fine for people to choose simple life as long as they set their expectations accordingly. Who am I to tell others to pick up a hobby or do something “complex”? Back when I was a kid, I’ve only seen a poverty and everyone was “simple”, and people still lived and laughed. Luckily those times are way past me, but as I grow up and meet more and more people in different countries and cultures, not everything is as simple as telling others “get a more interesting life so you can be happier”. Apologies for the rant, I just don’t get it when others say “do X, not Y to be happy”, as if happiness is nothing but a subjective state of mind. Obviously I am not entertaining the obvious physical/psychological addictions and stuff on that level, but if someone chooses a trash reality TV over “life enriching books”, that’s not my place to give them advice.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      >Who am I to tell others to pick up a hobby or do something “complex”? I don't make this assertion as some form of gatekeeping, and I don't expect everyone to have the same values. I don't have the answers, but I want to ask these question, in a Socratic style. Dig down and figure out what makes one "tick". Not quite as philosophical as "what is the meaning of life", but a similar vein of "what gives you* a meaning to live"? It's a relatively simple question: "If you had 10 million dollars today, what would you do?". If that answer is still just netflix, beer, sex, and games: well, that's your answer. Not what I would have gone with (and I imagine others have other riches or charities or power they'd do), but if they truly just want to live simply even when granted riches, so be it. The question isn't about some fantasy land, but more to figure out what values and other factors in life they care about. e.g. If you would by a yatch with 10 million, that probably means you would like to explore some water based activities. Maybe not fancy sailing, but rowing or fishing. Just an exercise to think outside the box many are trapped in. >I just don’t get it when others say “do X, not Y to be happy”, as if happiness is nothing but a subjective state of mind. Why do I care? I feel like at some point in the plot of life many forgot that they had passions and aspirations about what they wanted to grow up and do. We get bogged down by college grades (if that), by trying to grab a job, by trying to live and make rent, and then by retirement... what's left? you spent 40+ years working without a purpose just to fulfill check-boxes, without filling in the blanks in between the lines. It may be out of place, but living to be some corporation's peasant isn't a way to live. I simply want people to remember that spark and remind them that they can still work at it, not work to simply get by and pass your life by. If that spark is as simple as netflix, so be it. > Back when I was a kid, I’ve only seen a poverty and everyone was “simple”, and people still lived and laughed. in some ways I miss that simplicity. Honestly, part of my goal with those kinds of riches would be to just gather some old friends and hang out for a while. I wasn't a rich kid either, but I remember the days where it didn't take a month's planning to get 4 people together for a 2 hour sunday brunch. But there's some things money can't buy, and I know most of my friends are too prideful to take a "vacation" off, even if I was perfectly willing to compensate them for it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

kredd 3y ago

I was on board with your reasoning, but the end tail is just gatekeeping happiness. People have been satisfied with “simple pleasures” that made them happy throughout centuries. It’s close to saying “you’re not listening to the right kind of music, listening to rock is unhealthy!”. I do agree with you that when people use apps, they should set correct expectations. I think it’s the unmet expectations that are causing problems.

robertlagrant 3y ago
> but the end tail is just gatekeeping happiness How can this be gatekeeping? It's a conversation. Saying "repeated shallow dopamine hits will make it harder for you to build long term joy" isn't stopping anyone from doing anything. It's just a proposition. > People have been satisfied with “simple pleasures” that made them happy throughout centuries I don't think this is really...anything. Wisdom tends towards building for the long term and delayed gratification, not short termism at the expense of the long term. Being happy at seeing a beautiful sunset is at the expense of nothing, which is the difference being proposed.
lazide 3y ago
They’re referring to the hedonic treadmill, which is a thing. Heroin feels really good, which is why it’s dangerous. Because it feels too good, for what it actually does to you, and that’s a trap for a decent percentage of the population.
BiteCode_dev 3y ago
Not, it's not about the nature of pleasure. Netflix in itself is not a problem. Filling your life with it is. Which is easy to do because it's intense dopamine effects for little effort.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
Some simple pleasures are fine. Your entire life being nothing but simple pleasures (simple job, simple hobby, simple diet, simple goals etc.) makes you a simple person. I feel like thars why some people turn to making a family. Raising kids is never simple and it's not as easy to back out as trying a new hobby. Then again, divorces are through the roof as well, so maybe that is also failing at large.
- kredd 3y ago
  My usual perspective on life — it is absolutely fine for people to choose simple life as long as they set their expectations accordingly. Who am I to tell others to pick up a hobby or do something “complex”? Back when I was a kid, I’ve only seen a poverty and everyone was “simple”, and people still lived and laughed. Luckily those times are way past me, but as I grow up and meet more and more people in different countries and cultures, not everything is as simple as telling others “get a more interesting life so you can be happier”. Apologies for the rant, I just don’t get it when others say “do X, not Y to be happy”, as if happiness is nothing but a subjective state of mind. Obviously I am not entertaining the obvious physical/psychological addictions and stuff on that level, but if someone chooses a trash reality TV over “life enriching books”, that’s not my place to give them advice.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >Who am I to tell others to pick up a hobby or do something “complex”? I don't make this assertion as some form of gatekeeping, and I don't expect everyone to have the same values. I don't have the answers, but I want to ask these question, in a Socratic style. Dig down and figure out what makes one "tick". Not quite as philosophical as "what is the meaning of life", but a similar vein of "what gives you* a meaning to live"? It's a relatively simple question: "If you had 10 million dollars today, what would you do?". If that answer is still just netflix, beer, sex, and games: well, that's your answer. Not what I would have gone with (and I imagine others have other riches or charities or power they'd do), but if they truly just want to live simply even when granted riches, so be it. The question isn't about some fantasy land, but more to figure out what values and other factors in life they care about. e.g. If you would by a yatch with 10 million, that probably means you would like to explore some water based activities. Maybe not fancy sailing, but rowing or fishing. Just an exercise to think outside the box many are trapped in. >I just don’t get it when others say “do X, not Y to be happy”, as if happiness is nothing but a subjective state of mind. Why do I care? I feel like at some point in the plot of life many forgot that they had passions and aspirations about what they wanted to grow up and do. We get bogged down by college grades (if that), by trying to grab a job, by trying to live and make rent, and then by retirement... what's left? you spent 40+ years working without a purpose just to fulfill check-boxes, without filling in the blanks in between the lines. It may be out of place, but living to be some corporation's peasant isn't a way to live. I simply want people to remember that spark and remind them that they can still work at it, not work to simply get by and pass your life by. If that spark is as simple as netflix, so be it. > Back when I was a kid, I’ve only seen a poverty and everyone was “simple”, and people still lived and laughed. in some ways I miss that simplicity. Honestly, part of my goal with those kinds of riches would be to just gather some old friends and hang out for a while. I wasn't a rich kid either, but I remember the days where it didn't take a month's planning to get 4 people together for a 2 hour sunday brunch. But there's some things money can't buy, and I know most of my friends are too prideful to take a "vacation" off, even if I was perfectly willing to compensate them for it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]