8 ms·

I always carry a two dollar bill and fifty-cent piece, for when (e.g.) an entry-level store-clerk does something which most-other-clerks wouldn't resolve, I can

I always carry a two dollar bill and fifty-cent piece, for when (e.g.) an entry-level store-clerk does something which most-other-clerks wouldn't resolve, I can say to them "Thank you for giving. a . shit." As a blue-collar electrician (although retired), I want to hire anybody that seems to give even the tiniest shit. While working, it took me a decade to realize that "if you're the only person that 'gives a shit,' YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME."

nonrandomstring 3y ago
> it took me a decade to realize that "if you're the only person that 'gives a shit,' YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME." Oh my goodness. That perfectly describes my last 5 years in academia. The last person on the deck of a sinking ship, directing panicking souls, after everyone smart and agile already jumped in the lifeboats. But I don't regret it. I helped a lot of kids into lifeboats, and even found a nice lump of driftwood for myself as the university system gave one final creaking groan then plunged into the darkness.
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  My favorite former client [we're both retire now] is approaching 90 years old. Wow. She is a distinguished portrait artist from The Silent Generation, and she recently told me [upon her own best friend's recent death]: "Nobody wants to be the last one left at the party. You have to help clean up, then..." We ended our professional relationship over petty words when I felt like the only person giving a shit about maintaining her assets [as her maintenance guy]. Our personal relationship has outlasted any pettiness; but it still hurts seeing her squander her massive inheritance without maintenance.
  - nonrandomstring 3y ago
    Had to look up "The Silent Generation" and discovered the stereotype of my mum. Enlightening and funny, so thanks for that journey. "Last one out please turn off the lights..." seems a motif not just of the post-war generation, but the whole post-war culture and institutions.
    - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
      Fun factoid: 20% of men in this cohort lost their virginity via SWer, typically abroad during/before wartime. Just out there leaving messes everywhere, like they're paid to do it (or something).
    - chefOrNot111 3y ago
      [flagged]
SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
Maybe the implication wooshed right over me, but what was the role of the note and the coin?
- zogrodea 3y ago
  I believe it’s a way to reward the person for going above and beyond of what is expected of them, and for caring enough to do a good job.
  - jprd 3y ago
    Indeed, additionally - these are not "common" currency pieces. It isn't the monetary value, but the novelty in acquiring such pieces to give out. "I gave a shit enough to go out of my way to get these, and carry them. Now I am giving one to you because you gave a shit enough to go out of YOUR way. Thank you."
    - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
      Amen, my virtual brother. May a real $2.50 some-time-soon cross your path.
      - chefOrNot111 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - Retr0id 3y ago
    It's a strange and oddly specific amount. Being transferred any value less than about $10 feels like more of an insult than anything, to me. Might as well be handing out gold star stickers and a lollipops.
    - jcpst 3y ago
      It has nothing to do with the amount. It’s an uncommon item with real value. Gold stars and lollipops are not US currency. Also, I hope most people don’t believe a gift of less than $10 usd is an insult. It’s not nothing.
spacecadet 3y ago
1000%, Ive left teams and jobs over people "not giving a shit". One of the quickest path to burn out.
- drzaiusx11 3y ago
  Likewise, and have been burned enough times that I can _usually_ recognize the patterns within my first few weeks at an org (assuming they were clever enough to "hide" the institutional level problems during the interview process.) A sample of my "Giving a shit" checklist includes: Do they not utilize metrics or care when they tank? Do the rank and file engineers have a general malase and use terms like "not my problem" with impunity? Does management continually deprioritize critical "keep the lights on" work eg security patches WHEN they are fully aware of the repercussions (this knowing is key.) List of red flags goes on. No org is perfect, but why endure the pain when it can be avoided. Especially so when it can easily be recognized early enough in many cases.
  - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
    During my IBEW apprenticeship, I worked at two several-MW datacenters. One was a public agency, the other a private enterprise. Recently the private data center was sold to some international holding company, and it brought a smile to my face recollecting a conversation I had once with [now-former] CEO: "The data center is just a trick pony show we use to sell our real product." Glad they did well on the sale to new foreign owners. Definitional evil.
    - Geezus_42 3y ago
      Zix/Appriver?
  - 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
    My company uses metrics and I hate it. The best way to improve metrics? Decrease vertical height so you can fit more shit on the page. Is this actually good for anyone? Probably not.
drzaiusx11 3y ago
Personally, a large part of my job is telling folks _why_ they should give a shit; providing data on how not giving a shit will affect them or their company's bottom line. If they don't listen and it hits the fan anyways, they may have learned something and give a little more of a shit going forward. If they don't, I move on. Those that don't learn from their mistakes will continually supply the fan with further shit to spray. In general, people largely filter out the "caring" of what won't directly affect them personally or their tribe in the short term, blind to the longer term repercussions until they are pointed out with concrete details AND actionable options. Someone doing the "right things" for the current situation, either has foresight or prior knowledge. Those that aren't, either have neither, can't learn, or the options' positive net ffects do not outweigh the momentum of "doing nothing."
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  >a large part of my job is telling folks _why_ they should give a shit Some sort of "change management consulting" or something? ---- I'm looking for some sort of intellectual career which will allow me to capitalize on my inherent "glass half empty" perspectives. I used to do residential home inspections [as primary income, post IBEW], but during recent no-inspections home-buying... my services were required less-and-less. I have enough runway to last about a decade unemcumbered... but got tired of feeling like the only guy on jobsites that cared about not delivering _turds_ to well-paying customers.
  - CityOfThrowaway 3y ago
    Not OP, but if you love working on things that are important, hard, and an up-hill battle... try working in InfoSec!
  - drzaiusx11 3y ago
    Part of my role is "security certifier", which means working closely pen testers and Op/DevSec folks to review various systems and applications across subdivisions in a larger org.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
squarefoot 3y ago
> "if you're the only person that 'gives a shit,' YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME." Not only that (which is 100% true) but also you're raising the bar in required work quality for everyone else to get on par with you, therefore expect to make a few friends and many enemies, especially among colleagues.
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  >expect to make a few friends and many enemies The older I get, the less I'm willing to help disaster scenarios. "A lack of planning on your behalf, does not constitute an emergency upon mine."
  - dvt 3y ago
    > "A lack of planning on your behalf, does not constitute an emergency upon mine." Agreed. Imo, having "on call" rotations is a clear red flag and bad software practice that has somehow made it in the mainstream. I understand the idea of "mission critical" when you're running software on the Moon or something, but if your Earthbound software has so many potential bugs that you need to have dedicated people being on call every weekend to fix bugs or restart servers, you just built it poorly.
    - somsak2 3y ago
      If you work at a company on a team with a user-facing surface, you need to have an on-call rotation. Consumer expectations of uptime are extremely high and there's no way to build software that ensures 100% reliability without any human intervention.
      - dvt 3y ago
        Fundamentally disagree with this. In fact, most of human technology has worked without on-call rotations. From the complicated movements of mechanical watches, to the still-ticking heartbeats of the Voyager probes. Most software engineers just happen to be bad engineers. On-call rotations are a band-aid for poor planning and development (to be fair, often imposed by tech-delinquent middle managers or executives).
lr4444lr 3y ago
You've inspired me to start doing this. (Don't think I'll carry around that exact denomination, but the point is, giving a $%^& is a really good thing to financially incentivize.)
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  Ordering "a thousand dollars in two dollar bills, please" is a baller move that, at my local credit union, only costs $1000.00USD. And then you get to walk out [usually a few days later] with five straps of Jeffersons, feeling like a baller... This lasts me about one year of "appreciation" for others' "giving a shit"s.
chefOrNot111 3y ago
[flagged]
matheusmoreira 3y ago
> While working, it took me a decade to realize that "if you're the only person that 'gives a shit,' YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME." Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. When I was a teenager trying to decide what to do with my life, I dropped professional programming because every developer I knew at the time just didn't give a shit. Sometimes I wonder if I made the right decision. Recently someone posted an article here about disenchantment in the software industry, after reading it and the comments the feelings of doubt quickly went away.
- tangjurine 3y ago
  Do you remember which article? Would like to read it.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    Yes. It's this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37985176 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37985176
vjk800 3y ago
> Unix (/ˈjuːnɪks/, YOO-niks; trademarked as UNIX) is a family of multitasking, multi-user computer operating systems that derive from the original AT&T Unix Yes. This is why people stop giving a shit. I think new people, fresh out of school, mostly give a shit, but slowly figure out that their lives are a lot easier if they don't.
deanCommie 3y ago
Depending on which state this is in, this tip is equivalent to between 10-20mins of their paid work. Maybe this is reductive of me, and certainly any $ amount is better than zero $, but I sort of feel like by putting a financial value on your compliment you are devaluing it. A super heartfelt "Thank you for giving a shit. You truly made my day and inspired me to have faith in humanity. I know your job is hard and noone expects you to go the extra mile, and I genuinely appreciate that you did" in your own words would be meaningful. A financial tip of significance (e.g. 20$ - several HOURS of worth) would also be meaningful. That 2-dollar bills and fifty-cent pieces are rare is going to interesting to some, but I think to most the only thing they'll perceive is that you valued their extra mile at $2.50. I don't think that's what you're intending, so I thought I'd offer that alternative perspective.

nonrandomstring 3y ago

> it took me a decade to realize that "if you're the only person that 'gives a shit,' YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME." Oh my goodness. That perfectly describes my last 5 years in academia. The last person on the deck of a sinking ship, directing panicking souls, after everyone smart and agile already jumped in the lifeboats. But I don't regret it. I helped a lot of kids into lifeboats, and even found a nice lump of driftwood for myself as the university system gave one final creaking groan then plunged into the darkness.

ProllyInfamous 3y ago
My favorite former client [we're both retire now] is approaching 90 years old. Wow. She is a distinguished portrait artist from The Silent Generation, and she recently told me [upon her own best friend's recent death]: "Nobody wants to be the last one left at the party. You have to help clean up, then..." We ended our professional relationship over petty words when I felt like the only person giving a shit about maintaining her assets [as her maintenance guy]. Our personal relationship has outlasted any pettiness; but it still hurts seeing her squander her massive inheritance without maintenance.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  Had to look up "The Silent Generation" and discovered the stereotype of my mum. Enlightening and funny, so thanks for that journey. "Last one out please turn off the lights..." seems a motif not just of the post-war generation, but the whole post-war culture and institutions.
  - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
    Fun factoid: 20% of men in this cohort lost their virginity via SWer, typically abroad during/before wartime. Just out there leaving messes everywhere, like they're paid to do it (or something).
  - chefOrNot111 3y ago
    [flagged]

SturgeonsLaw 3y ago

Maybe the implication wooshed right over me, but what was the role of the note and the coin?

zogrodea 3y ago
I believe it’s a way to reward the person for going above and beyond of what is expected of them, and for caring enough to do a good job.
- jprd 3y ago
  Indeed, additionally - these are not "common" currency pieces. It isn't the monetary value, but the novelty in acquiring such pieces to give out. "I gave a shit enough to go out of my way to get these, and carry them. Now I am giving one to you because you gave a shit enough to go out of YOUR way. Thank you."
  - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
    Amen, my virtual brother. May a real $2.50 some-time-soon cross your path.
    - chefOrNot111 3y ago
      [flagged]
- Retr0id 3y ago
  It's a strange and oddly specific amount. Being transferred any value less than about $10 feels like more of an insult than anything, to me. Might as well be handing out gold star stickers and a lollipops.
  - jcpst 3y ago
    It has nothing to do with the amount. It’s an uncommon item with real value. Gold stars and lollipops are not US currency. Also, I hope most people don’t believe a gift of less than $10 usd is an insult. It’s not nothing.

spacecadet 3y ago

1000%, Ive left teams and jobs over people "not giving a shit". One of the quickest path to burn out.

drzaiusx11 3y ago
Likewise, and have been burned enough times that I can _usually_ recognize the patterns within my first few weeks at an org (assuming they were clever enough to "hide" the institutional level problems during the interview process.) A sample of my "Giving a shit" checklist includes: Do they not utilize metrics or care when they tank? Do the rank and file engineers have a general malase and use terms like "not my problem" with impunity? Does management continually deprioritize critical "keep the lights on" work eg security patches WHEN they are fully aware of the repercussions (this knowing is key.) List of red flags goes on. No org is perfect, but why endure the pain when it can be avoided. Especially so when it can easily be recognized early enough in many cases.
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  During my IBEW apprenticeship, I worked at two several-MW datacenters. One was a public agency, the other a private enterprise. Recently the private data center was sold to some international holding company, and it brought a smile to my face recollecting a conversation I had once with [now-former] CEO: "The data center is just a trick pony show we use to sell our real product." Glad they did well on the sale to new foreign owners. Definitional evil.
  - Geezus_42 3y ago
    Zix/Appriver?
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
  My company uses metrics and I hate it. The best way to improve metrics? Decrease vertical height so you can fit more shit on the page. Is this actually good for anyone? Probably not.

drzaiusx11 3y ago

Personally, a large part of my job is telling folks _why_ they should give a shit; providing data on how not giving a shit will affect them or their company's bottom line. If they don't listen and it hits the fan anyways, they may have learned something and give a little more of a shit going forward. If they don't, I move on. Those that don't learn from their mistakes will continually supply the fan with further shit to spray. In general, people largely filter out the "caring" of what won't directly affect them personally or their tribe in the short term, blind to the longer term repercussions until they are pointed out with concrete details AND actionable options. Someone doing the "right things" for the current situation, either has foresight or prior knowledge. Those that aren't, either have neither, can't learn, or the options' positive net ffects do not outweigh the momentum of "doing nothing."

ProllyInfamous 3y ago
>a large part of my job is telling folks _why_ they should give a shit Some sort of "change management consulting" or something? ---- I'm looking for some sort of intellectual career which will allow me to capitalize on my inherent "glass half empty" perspectives. I used to do residential home inspections [as primary income, post IBEW], but during recent no-inspections home-buying... my services were required less-and-less. I have enough runway to last about a decade unemcumbered... but got tired of feeling like the only guy on jobsites that cared about not delivering _turds_ to well-paying customers.
- CityOfThrowaway 3y ago
  Not OP, but if you love working on things that are important, hard, and an up-hill battle... try working in InfoSec!
- drzaiusx11 3y ago
  Part of my role is "security certifier", which means working closely pen testers and Op/DevSec folks to review various systems and applications across subdivisions in a larger org.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

squarefoot 3y ago

> "if you're the only person that 'gives a shit,' YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME." Not only that (which is 100% true) but also you're raising the bar in required work quality for everyone else to get on par with you, therefore expect to make a few friends and many enemies, especially among colleagues.

ProllyInfamous 3y ago
>expect to make a few friends and many enemies The older I get, the less I'm willing to help disaster scenarios. "A lack of planning on your behalf, does not constitute an emergency upon mine."
- dvt 3y ago
  > "A lack of planning on your behalf, does not constitute an emergency upon mine." Agreed. Imo, having "on call" rotations is a clear red flag and bad software practice that has somehow made it in the mainstream. I understand the idea of "mission critical" when you're running software on the Moon or something, but if your Earthbound software has so many potential bugs that you need to have dedicated people being on call every weekend to fix bugs or restart servers, you just built it poorly.
  - somsak2 3y ago
    If you work at a company on a team with a user-facing surface, you need to have an on-call rotation. Consumer expectations of uptime are extremely high and there's no way to build software that ensures 100% reliability without any human intervention.
    - dvt 3y ago
      Fundamentally disagree with this. In fact, most of human technology has worked without on-call rotations. From the complicated movements of mechanical watches, to the still-ticking heartbeats of the Voyager probes. Most software engineers just happen to be bad engineers. On-call rotations are a band-aid for poor planning and development (to be fair, often imposed by tech-delinquent middle managers or executives).

lr4444lr 3y ago

You've inspired me to start doing this. (Don't think I'll carry around that exact denomination, but the point is, giving a $%^& is a really good thing to financially incentivize.)

ProllyInfamous 3y ago
Ordering "a thousand dollars in two dollar bills, please" is a baller move that, at my local credit union, only costs $1000.00USD. And then you get to walk out [usually a few days later] with five straps of Jeffersons, feeling like a baller... This lasts me about one year of "appreciation" for others' "giving a shit"s.

chefOrNot111 3y ago

[flagged]

matheusmoreira 3y ago

> While working, it took me a decade to realize that "if you're the only person that 'gives a shit,' YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME." Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. When I was a teenager trying to decide what to do with my life, I dropped professional programming because every developer I knew at the time just didn't give a shit. Sometimes I wonder if I made the right decision. Recently someone posted an article here about disenchantment in the software industry, after reading it and the comments the feelings of doubt quickly went away.

tangjurine 3y ago
Do you remember which article? Would like to read it.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Yes. It's this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37985176 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37985176

vjk800 3y ago

> Unix (/ˈjuːnɪks/, YOO-niks; trademarked as UNIX) is a family of multitasking, multi-user computer operating systems that derive from the original AT&T Unix Yes. This is why people stop giving a shit. I think new people, fresh out of school, mostly give a shit, but slowly figure out that their lives are a lot easier if they don't.

deanCommie 3y ago

Depending on which state this is in, this tip is equivalent to between 10-20mins of their paid work. Maybe this is reductive of me, and certainly any $ amount is better than zero $, but I sort of feel like by putting a financial value on your compliment you are devaluing it. A super heartfelt "Thank you for giving a shit. You truly made my day and inspired me to have faith in humanity. I know your job is hard and noone expects you to go the extra mile, and I genuinely appreciate that you did" in your own words would be meaningful. A financial tip of significance (e.g. 20$ - several HOURS of worth) would also be meaningful. That 2-dollar bills and fifty-cent pieces are rare is going to interesting to some, but I think to most the only thing they'll perceive is that you valued their extra mile at $2.50. I don't think that's what you're intending, so I thought I'd offer that alternative perspective.