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Latvia to start conscripting men for mandatory military service, starting 2024
- underseacables 3y agoAccording to the Latvian minister of defense, Inara Murniece, the adoption of the Law on State Defense Service is “[t]he Latvian response to new regional security challenges, and is aimed at strengthening all defense capabilities and developing comprehensive national defense service.” This has to be because of Russia, right?
- sach1 3y agoThat's a safe assumption. I found this article an interesting take on Latvian defense policy: https://www.fpri.org/article/2020/06/latvias-new-state-defense-concept/ https://www.fpri.org/article/2020/06/latvias-new-state-defen...
- m0llusk 3y agoThat is an interesting document. In particular, the focus seems to be on preventing Latvia from being suddenly and completely invaded as happened in all three Baltic states last time. This includes gear and forces dedicated to detecting enemy operations, relatively high tech gear and systems like anti air missile defenses, and also the capability to keep the government functioning such as fortification and relocation. One take away from all of this is that many of the actions being proposed for defense appear to be just as suitable for female service members as males. Operating detectors and signal scanners, staffing drones and anti air missile batteries, and keeping the government functional are all tasks that require awareness and training but not necessarily physical strength or robustness.
- gumballindie 3y agoNot only. A visibly weakened continental western europe, russia, turkey, discontent within the eu (ie austria increasingly resurgent), an increasing domestic risk, all pose a real threat to european stability. The situation is likely to blow up soon.
- jeltz 3y agoHow is Western Europe weakened? Of anything the war in Ukraine showed the power of the European countries if they want something done.
- codedokode 3y agoThe following is true for many European countries: 1) citizens do not receive military training so they will be unable to defend the country in case of invasion 2) there is not enough weapon and ammunition 3) the border is not properly fortified and supervised, so it is possible to advance fast and capture large territory with a surprise attack, and it will be very difficult to take it back > war in Ukraine showed the power of the European countries No. The war showed that it is easy to capture large territory with a well planned surprise attack and it is difficult (or maybe even impossible) to take it back once there are trenches, minefields and other fortifications. Also the war showed that Europe is unable to provide necessary amount of ammunitions.
- RandomLensman 3y agoA surprise attack on Ukraine - when and where did that happen? Russian troops were massing for quite a while.
- codedokode 3y agoProbably people were thinking that it was a bluff and there would be no invasion. If you look at the map, most of the territory was captured in first days, and then, after Russia has built trenches and minefields it takes lots of resources and time to take back even a single village. So what we should learn from this is that if you want to take a land from some other country (for example: Finland, Sweden or any non-NATO country) then this "surprise attack" strategy is working. You advance 50-200 km into enemy's territory within several days while your enemy is unprepared and then entrench and now your enemy has to storm your well defended positions, go through the minefields, losing many times more soldiers and equipment than you. And you can just sit and wait until they exhaust and surrender. If you don't want that happening to your country then you should fortify your borders and build minefields and trenches first.
- saaaaaam 3y agoIt says in the previous paragraph that this is because of the war in Ukraine. So yes, Russia.
- jalapenos 3y agoYes, just sounds more formal than "Russia prob gonna get us so let's get ready".
- madspindel 3y agoIn Swedish Military we have this term about "Fiende Röd från Öst" (Enemy Red from the East). Definitely not about Russia.
- zogrodea 3y agoThinking of Sweden-Russia relations reminded me of this (https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/06/06/how-a-nondescript-tweet-sparked-a-huge-debate-on-swedish-hospitality https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/06/06/how-a-nondescr..., where people were mocking Sweden for not giving food to others’ kids who are guests. I seem to recall Swedish authorities followed up on the claim, checking if it’s propaganda from Russia, but they failed to find any links (their conclusion was that it’s wholly unconnected). Does anyone else rem this latter part as well or am I misremembering?
- gumballindie 3y agoUnfortunately this needs to happen in all nato countries. The bells of war in europe are ringing again.
- jeltz 3y agoSweden already did this in 2914 as a response to the annexat0on of Crimea.
- a1o 3y agoIt's comforting to know we will be alive in 2914.
- sys_64738 3y agoYeah, no. There is no way I'd ever sign up to fight somebody else's war requirements. Let those who dream it up make the sacrifice with their male heirs. My life it too important, short in length, and valuable for such garbage.
- qiqitori 3y agoUpvoted from a super fast downvote; same here.
- RandomLensman 3y agoAll those who served or fought before are idiots? Nothing ever worth defending?
- acadapter 3y agoThere are countless examples of wars were many have sacrificed themselves for nothing. WW1 is probably the prime example. Of course, while it all was happening, it was commonly described as the most important thing to do.
- RandomLensman 3y ago
- glimshe 3y agoPoland woke up a while ago, now others are following. Russia is a major threat to European security.
- jeltz 3y agoSweden woke up in 2014. Probably not enough waking up but the invasion of Crimea changed a lot here.
- Gud 3y agoNot really. The Swedish armed forces are still incredibly underfunded and understaffed.
- ekianjo 3y ago[flagged]
- flohofwoe 3y agoNot that bullshit again please. Show the treaty where anything about Eastern NATO expansion was said, anything written and signed? The only thing that's close is that there would be no foreign troups stationed in East Germany, this was a Soviet condition to agree to the reunification (and guess what, there aren't any to this day). NATO isn't forcing countries under their umbrella, countries apply to join NATO instead.
- bjornsing 3y ago> NATO isn't forcing countries under their umbrella, countries apply to join NATO instead. Exactly. The whole Russian narrative is based on the idea that the sovereign states in its vicinity shouldn’t really be sovereign when it comes to military or economic alliances (e.g. EU). A lot of people in the west are doing a great disservice to a rule based world order by entertaining that narrative as rational and respectable.
- _kbh_ 3y ago
- ThinkBeat 3y agoIt is sad that such a gender discriminatory law is passed. In this day and age for the state to base mandatory requirements on gender is unfortunate.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- SanderNL 3y agoI agree, such blatant discrimination. I fully expect the feminist garde to be on the streets protesting this awful move.
- deely3 3y ago> According to the Journal of Exercise Physiology, women generally produce about two-thirds the amount of total strength and applied force that men produce.
- diath 3y agoWars are not a matter of physical strength, being biologically weaker wouldn't prevent a woman from, say, operating a drone.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deely3 3y agoAgree. But we have to keep this limitation in mind. There could be situations where you have to carry a drone or batteries from place to place for example.
- SanderNL 3y agoSure, we use a couple of Hanks for that. Sherley and Melinda will catch the bullets just fine.
- oytis 3y agoI bet emigration of young people, especially men, from Latvia will accelerate again.
- ThinkBeat 3y agoI dont understand how they can achieve this. They have given themselves an extreme short timeline. Military bases must be built or at least extended. Barracks. kitchens, medical services, bunks. recreation Uniforms, shoes, Camping / field equipment for everyone. Aquisition of weapons and weapon systems for the recruits, A wide assortment of training grounds needs to be prepared. Instructors need to be trained and dedicated to the task. and a lot more. I would think that would take years not months. It does say in the article that they had mandatory service for men that ended in 2006. If they were really smart, they have kept up maintenance and upgrade for all the infrastructure they needed back then and its ready for use. That would be an outstanding achievement for any western government. Retaining all the instructors and other personal would have been smart to but I bet they did not do so. I guess the big question would be "how many soldiers per year". Are they requesting everyone to show up for recruitment and will only pick a few for service. That woud make it a lot easier. If they take everyone they have a close to impossible plan.
- where-group-by 3y agoI don't think retaining the old instructors would be a good idea. Their training methods were probably very heavily influenced by the Soviet times, which will not work well with modern approach to warfare. Of course there are other aspects of being in the army.
- fullspectrumdev 3y agoIt requires like at least 10 clerks, logistics workers, cooks, drivers, etc for each “fighting man” in the army in modern times - warfare is largely applied logistics. I’d suspect that a lot of the conscripts will get some basic weapons training and then end up in a “rear” role while the professional soldiers and best of the conscripts are assigned to the “combat units” and train more rigorously
- fullspectrumdev 3y agoThere’s an alternative civil service route and several different ways you can complete your military service - along with a whole host of exceptions. I’d suspect a relatively large number of conscripts will be diverted to the civil service route on basis of fitness, choice, suitability, etc initially - doing work such as driving ambulances, fire service, auxiliary policing work, working in care homes, being porters in hospitals, etc. It also sounds like there’s a route similar to ROTC for university students?
- Thrir94994i 3y ago> The application and evaluation processes for women and men are identical and do not distinguish between them. The Center for European Policy Analysis reports that Latvia has “comparatively good female representation within the Latvian National Armed Forces.” At present, women make up 16.5% of the army’s 6,700 military personnel. They could easily boost that number by conscripting women. My "military service" in nearby country consisted mostly of wiping arses of elderly patients in hospital. Anyone can do that!
- fullspectrumdev 3y ago> The law provides for two categories of service — military service and alternative (civil) service — prescribing the rules and procedures for performing these obligations. The alternate civil service route is understated and extremely useful, I think. It’s not reasonably possible to draft and train all men who turn 18, so you make a bunch of exceptions and then an alternate route doing stuff like acting as ambulance drivers, firemen, reserve police (think: PCSO/Specials in the UK), even just fucking wrangling paperwork or whatever. It’s not a bad system, as these things go.
- acadapter 3y agoIt's still a penalty based on what half of the population you were randomly born into. Male lifespan is on average shorter, and this burden is yet another thing on the minus side.
- fullspectrumdev 3y agoThat doesn’t bother me, as a man.
- where-group-by 3y agoWill you be affected though? You're probably old enough to avoid it anyway.
- fullspectrumdev 3y agoMy country doesn’t (and never has had) conscription, so it’s largely academic for me. I’m also too old. It does seem like a years service isn’t the worst burden though, especially in peacetime, with an option to do civil service as an alternative to military service.
- vasco 3y agoWar is absolute shit. Nobody should have to go. I've never served and I don't know what is best for the security of a country, everyone fighting or all the women not fighting, what I know is that Svetlana Alexievich's book "The Unwomanly Face of War: An Oral History of Women in World War II" gave me a bunch of insights into how it works to have women in War from first hand oral accounts. Highly recommend it, she got a Nobel prize too.
- rado 3y agoI wish leaders would settle their differences in a game of CS2, instead of using the old meat grinder.
- rascul 3y agoConscription is slavery.
- ericfrazier 3y agoLatvia sees the writing on the wall