2 ms·

They really didn't, it's all survivorship bias, and those that survived were usually maintained out of necessity or not used at all. > of course they required

They really didn't, it's all survivorship bias, and those that survived were usually maintained out of necessity or not used at all. > of course they required maintenance but were so basic that anyone could do it The problem with most products made under planned economy is that they often didn't even work out of the factory, and required part replacement or hacking some solution right off the bat. And the maintenance wasn't really trivial most of the time. Yes, modern cars have planned obsolescence but they are far more reliable and don't need to be serviced that often.

jacquesm 3y ago
> The problem with most products made under planned economy is that they often didn't even work out of the factory This happens under capitalism as well. Judging by the amount of junk in your average building store's tool department... some of it looks just like the real thing, in some cases they aren't even trying. I recently bought an air relief key for my radiators, they only sold them in packs of three. All three of them were of such crappy casting material that they broke on the first tap I tried to open with them. Fortunately I found one made in the 70's or so from stainless steel and that worked like a charm. But you couldn't buy that quality today in a normal store, you'd have to go to some specialty place that sells tools for professionals, get yourself a registered account with them and then you can order. Planned economy products were a mixed bag, that's for sure, but capitalism can produce junk just as easily. What matters are the incentives and to what degree the buyers have access to alternatives.
coldtea 3y ago
>They really didn't, it's all survivorship bias Visit Cuba to see the "survivorship bias" theory proven BS. Or many places in Asia and Africa and Latin America, for that matter. Older cars, including cheap ones like the 2CV, VW Beetle, Fiat Mini, Yugo, and such, were very serviceable and durable, with very easy means of repair. I know people who in 2023, still have the Beetle, 2CV, and Mini in working condition (and rather pristine), their family having it since the 70s. And I had a friend who was using a Yugo for over 20 years, from student to 40ish (he changed it when he got a kid). If a modern car, engine or one of the dozens of cpus die, you're SOL without the manufacturer support, original parts, and official service. Even worse for an electric. With those you could go around the world (and many in the 60s and 70s did, like going on "hippie" style adventures), and fix them locally, sometimes even with the most basic tools. >those that survived were usually maintained out of necessity And that's bad (or invalidates their durability) because?
- orbital-decay 3y ago
  Yes of course most old cars are serviceable. I'm talking about things like not being able to close your door shut properly because the dimensions are slightly off. The quality control was non-existent because the plan took absolute priority and everything else was non-essential to the point the factory could spew the product with half of the parts missing, and ignore the angry consumers who got duped because they weren't affected by consumer feedback in any way. I actually lived in a planned economy country and I know the bullshit you had to put up with. If you compare apples to apples, i.e. cars made in Eastern Bloc/USSR and the rest of the world of the same era, the typical experience of a car owner in communist countries was exactly like in Cuba - you were expected to constantly fix the half-assed crap you bought because it's literally falling apart. The fall of the wall and the Union led to the instant increase in the quality even during the turmoil of the economic transition. That was long before the prevalence of smart everything, planned obsolescence, "enshittification" etc.

jacquesm 3y ago

> The problem with most products made under planned economy is that they often didn't even work out of the factory This happens under capitalism as well. Judging by the amount of junk in your average building store's tool department... some of it looks just like the real thing, in some cases they aren't even trying. I recently bought an air relief key for my radiators, they only sold them in packs of three. All three of them were of such crappy casting material that they broke on the first tap I tried to open with them. Fortunately I found one made in the 70's or so from stainless steel and that worked like a charm. But you couldn't buy that quality today in a normal store, you'd have to go to some specialty place that sells tools for professionals, get yourself a registered account with them and then you can order. Planned economy products were a mixed bag, that's for sure, but capitalism can produce junk just as easily. What matters are the incentives and to what degree the buyers have access to alternatives.

coldtea 3y ago

>They really didn't, it's all survivorship bias Visit Cuba to see the "survivorship bias" theory proven BS. Or many places in Asia and Africa and Latin America, for that matter. Older cars, including cheap ones like the 2CV, VW Beetle, Fiat Mini, Yugo, and such, were very serviceable and durable, with very easy means of repair. I know people who in 2023, still have the Beetle, 2CV, and Mini in working condition (and rather pristine), their family having it since the 70s. And I had a friend who was using a Yugo for over 20 years, from student to 40ish (he changed it when he got a kid). If a modern car, engine or one of the dozens of cpus die, you're SOL without the manufacturer support, original parts, and official service. Even worse for an electric. With those you could go around the world (and many in the 60s and 70s did, like going on "hippie" style adventures), and fix them locally, sometimes even with the most basic tools. >those that survived were usually maintained out of necessity And that's bad (or invalidates their durability) because?

orbital-decay 3y ago
Yes of course most old cars are serviceable. I'm talking about things like not being able to close your door shut properly because the dimensions are slightly off. The quality control was non-existent because the plan took absolute priority and everything else was non-essential to the point the factory could spew the product with half of the parts missing, and ignore the angry consumers who got duped because they weren't affected by consumer feedback in any way. I actually lived in a planned economy country and I know the bullshit you had to put up with. If you compare apples to apples, i.e. cars made in Eastern Bloc/USSR and the rest of the world of the same era, the typical experience of a car owner in communist countries was exactly like in Cuba - you were expected to constantly fix the half-assed crap you bought because it's literally falling apart. The fall of the wall and the Union led to the instant increase in the quality even during the turmoil of the economic transition. That was long before the prevalence of smart everything, planned obsolescence, "enshittification" etc.