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Is this something that people commonly believe? I don't think I've ever heard anyone make a comment about pinball being random. It's a game of skill and I just

Is this something that people commonly believe? I don't think I've ever heard anyone make a comment about pinball being random. It's a game of skill and I just don't understand how someone who has played pinball would think otherwise. Cool video though. I like the clear explanation of goals and all the flashy lights.

crooked-v 3y ago
These days, it probably has to do with pinball being a second-tier curiosity that exists in many places mostly as a change of pace from purely electronic arcade machines.
hakfoo 3y ago
From what I understand, early pinball looked a lot more like pachinko. There weren't flippers and there was much less opportunity to consciously guide gameplay. This made it a lot more of a game of chance than a game of skill, so it was closer to a gambling device. Some places went all the way-- the operator would award prizes for getting specific outcomes, and a lot of places banned or regulated them for decades. There were apparently court trials where experienced players demonstrated that they could call specific shots, to prove that it was not a pure-chance endeavour.
a1369209993 3y ago
People commonly believe that pinball has a random element (which it de facto does), and I assumed TFA was going be a dive into the precise (and technically deterministic) Newtonian physics underlying things like bumpers. But this seems to be attacking a dubious-bordering-on-straw-man position claiming that it's purely random. Even the people shown calling it random sound less like they're calling it inherently random, and more like when I talk about something that I'm sufficiently bad at that any success is more a matter of luck than skill. (Of course, as hakfoo points out, early 'pinball' was basically roulette in cartesian coordinates with more complications, but I don't know of anyone who non-trick-questionishly means that rather than actual pinball when they say "pinball" without disambiguation, so that's if anything a even-more-straw-stuffed position to be trying to correct.)
locallost 3y ago
I never played pinball that much since we never had a lot of money when I was younger, but even with little time on them it was clear there was a sequence you need to hit. I just never had the time to figure it out. Also the video states most people randomly move the flippers -- can't say I saw this too much, most people I saw tried to slow down the ball as shown in the video. They really are amazing, that feeling if the ball gliding on the surface is incredible.

crooked-v 3y ago

These days, it probably has to do with pinball being a second-tier curiosity that exists in many places mostly as a change of pace from purely electronic arcade machines.

hakfoo 3y ago

From what I understand, early pinball looked a lot more like pachinko. There weren't flippers and there was much less opportunity to consciously guide gameplay. This made it a lot more of a game of chance than a game of skill, so it was closer to a gambling device. Some places went all the way-- the operator would award prizes for getting specific outcomes, and a lot of places banned or regulated them for decades. There were apparently court trials where experienced players demonstrated that they could call specific shots, to prove that it was not a pure-chance endeavour.

a1369209993 3y ago

People commonly believe that pinball has a random element (which it de facto does), and I assumed TFA was going be a dive into the precise (and technically deterministic) Newtonian physics underlying things like bumpers. But this seems to be attacking a dubious-bordering-on-straw-man position claiming that it's purely random. Even the people shown calling it random sound less like they're calling it inherently random, and more like when I talk about something that I'm sufficiently bad at that any success is more a matter of luck than skill. (Of course, as hakfoo points out, early 'pinball' was basically roulette in cartesian coordinates with more complications, but I don't know of anyone who non-trick-questionishly means that rather than actual pinball when they say "pinball" without disambiguation, so that's if anything a even-more-straw-stuffed position to be trying to correct.)

locallost 3y ago

I never played pinball that much since we never had a lot of money when I was younger, but even with little time on them it was clear there was a sequence you need to hit. I just never had the time to figure it out. Also the video states most people randomly move the flippers -- can't say I saw this too much, most people I saw tried to slow down the ball as shown in the video. They really are amazing, that feeling if the ball gliding on the surface is incredible.