4 ms·

Until React can cross compile in Rust and spawn a browser instance in WASM with a graphql interface, I will keep making sarcastic jokes about React. /s I start

by keyle 3y ago

Until React can cross compile in Rust and spawn a browser instance in WASM with a graphql interface, I will keep making sarcastic jokes about React. /s I started as a front-end dev, focused on that in the 2000s as this was where the work was interesting... Now I go by back-end dev, because I just can't deal with the front-end "industry" anymore. All the best, though.

paulddraper 3y ago
> can cross compile in Rust what does that mean
- culi 3y ago
  No one knows what it means, but it's provocative
  - alluro2 3y ago
    It gets the people going!
    - m0llusk 3y ago
      Selling is all about having and sharing a vision.
- keyle 3y ago
  Well it's simple. Imagine a cross runner, then give him a 180K yearly package. He'd only have to bridge the distance between React and rustc, which is clearly 4 (s/ea/us/t|c)^42.
postalrat 3y ago
If you think the front-end is a mess just wait to till you see the layers upon layers of complexity people are using the manage back-end services.
- qudat 3y ago
  Totally agree. All of these arguments claiming the FE is too complex need a reality check with the real monster: https://landscape.cncf.io/ https://landscape.cncf.io/
  - keyle 3y ago
    Oh my.
  - 0xpgm 3y ago
    Most of these are optional, one can stay with a very simple stack similar the LAMP stack i.e. a web server, a database and a backend language on Linux for small to mid-sized apps. And pick something simple for CI/CD. Of course if you are into enterprise or 'web scale', things can get a bit more complicated, but it's how complicated you make it to be.
    - MrJohz 3y ago
      And of course, much the same thing is true for the frontend as well. Most of the time, the worst takes off frontend excess or backend complexity are being told by people who aren't working in field, and just looking in from outside. Rendering everything on the server and adding a bit of Javascript along the way works - it had its flaws, but so does everything else, you just need to figure out which flaws make sense for you to deal with. For a little extra complexity, use Vite as a bundler, and add a framework - Vue is pretty simple to get started with - and you're almost immediately away. You even get some stuff like Typescript for free at this point. And like you say, you can make things more complicated with various other tools, but if you need that, you probably know you need that, and you know what it's doing and why it's necessary complexity.
      - herewulf 3y ago
        I had a problem and got TypeScript for free. Now I solve my many problems with "any" problems.
      - 3y ago
synergy20 3y ago
the SSR first trend for SPAs finally pushed me away from React(along with Vue,etc). I'm an embedded developer, I can not run node.js on the target, even MVC on the server(i.e. target board) in C or Lua could be too heavy, so SPA with restful was the best option, now all SPAs are turning into SSR-first and making things even more complex, I can no longer justify the time spending chasing the modern frontend any more, I need alternatives. I'm trying nim for SPA at the moment, also thinking about some C based restful approach(civetweb, ulfius) https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/2926 https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/2926
- robertoandred 3y ago
  Or you could keep using react the way you always were
- rk06 3y ago
  But vue is SPA only. And Has No Direct relation to SSR framework
  - synergy20 3y ago
    true, the only one remains sane so far, but I'm unsure how long that will last, I lost confidence in frontend as far as keeping-getting-unnecessarily-more-complex is concerned
- winter_blue 3y ago
  Even a Raspberry Pi Zero that costs $5 retail[0] should be good enough[2] to run modern Linux + a node process running Next.js with SSR. Why do embedded developers pick really resource-constrained chips, when decently powerful chips that can run Linux have become so cheap? [1] probably even cheaper if purchasing B2B, in bulk [2] i.e. should have enough CPU (1 GB) and RAM (512 MB)
  - DanielHB 3y ago
    I work with a frontend app that talks with microcontrollers that have 2mb of ram, they don't run linux and can't even support an HTTP stack. We actually use UDP to send messages to them (through a thin native layer in our app) I don't remember the exact numbers as I don't work with the manufacturing side but the budget for our microcontrollers was <0.5 USD per microcontroller > Why do embedded developers pick really resource-constrained chips, when decently powerful chips that can run Linux have become so cheap? 1) Often you have multiple microcontrollers per device 2) It just follows a general trend with industrial manufacturing of always trying to find ways to cut costs. It is not just microcontrollers, after a product is finished, v2 will always strive to cut costs and be cheaper. Components costs grow linearly with production volume. If you sell a million of devices with a 5 USD chip that is 5 million dollars that could have been spent on R&D (maybe like 5 devs working on it full time for a year) 3) Sometimes the microcontrollers are dedicated for security/safety, those you don't want to run linux on because it makes them harder to QA and certify (non determinism doesn't play well with safety). You want them small, lean and as simple/dumb as possible 4) Sourcing problems, advanced chips are harder to source in higher quantities, especially lately. Crappy microcontrollers can be bought like buying legos at the lego store 5) Size, reliability and heat constraints. Bigger chips are harder to integrate into a custom board, require more power and could generate enough heat to cause problems. Integrating a Raspberry CM requires a custom connector with like 50 wires or so and wiring it can be really annoying/error-prone One of our systems had a Raspberry CM3 before, it was the first thing on the chopping block for the v2. Apparently it was the most expensive single electronic component of the whole system.
work_hard93 3y ago
Sometimes I too find getting things out of hand. I have been working as a frontend dev for the last 5 years now , tbh sometimes there are pointless discussions over the app architecture for 90% of the cases it is simple React SPA app + REST APIs , thats it and then people try to put SSR there and what not which tbh is not required even from a business pov. It takes the joy out of things. Although i hear folks say the same about backend , but honestly i have not done backend so cant comment about that, planning to move though

by keyle 3y ago

paulddraper 3y ago

> can cross compile in Rust what does that mean

culi 3y ago
No one knows what it means, but it's provocative
- alluro2 3y ago
  It gets the people going!
  - m0llusk 3y ago
    Selling is all about having and sharing a vision.
keyle 3y ago
Well it's simple. Imagine a cross runner, then give him a 180K yearly package. He'd only have to bridge the distance between React and rustc, which is clearly 4 (s/ea/us/t|c)^42.

postalrat 3y ago

If you think the front-end is a mess just wait to till you see the layers upon layers of complexity people are using the manage back-end services.

qudat 3y ago
Totally agree. All of these arguments claiming the FE is too complex need a reality check with the real monster: https://landscape.cncf.io/ https://landscape.cncf.io/
- keyle 3y ago
  Oh my.
- 0xpgm 3y ago
  Most of these are optional, one can stay with a very simple stack similar the LAMP stack i.e. a web server, a database and a backend language on Linux for small to mid-sized apps. And pick something simple for CI/CD. Of course if you are into enterprise or 'web scale', things can get a bit more complicated, but it's how complicated you make it to be.
  - MrJohz 3y ago
    And of course, much the same thing is true for the frontend as well. Most of the time, the worst takes off frontend excess or backend complexity are being told by people who aren't working in field, and just looking in from outside. Rendering everything on the server and adding a bit of Javascript along the way works - it had its flaws, but so does everything else, you just need to figure out which flaws make sense for you to deal with. For a little extra complexity, use Vite as a bundler, and add a framework - Vue is pretty simple to get started with - and you're almost immediately away. You even get some stuff like Typescript for free at this point. And like you say, you can make things more complicated with various other tools, but if you need that, you probably know you need that, and you know what it's doing and why it's necessary complexity.
    - herewulf 3y ago
      I had a problem and got TypeScript for free. Now I solve my many problems with "any" problems.
    - 3y ago

synergy20 3y ago

the SSR first trend for SPAs finally pushed me away from React(along with Vue,etc). I'm an embedded developer, I can not run node.js on the target, even MVC on the server(i.e. target board) in C or Lua could be too heavy, so SPA with restful was the best option, now all SPAs are turning into SSR-first and making things even more complex, I can no longer justify the time spending chasing the modern frontend any more, I need alternatives. I'm trying nim for SPA at the moment, also thinking about some C based restful approach(civetweb, ulfius) https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/2926 https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/2926

robertoandred 3y ago
Or you could keep using react the way you always were
rk06 3y ago
But vue is SPA only. And Has No Direct relation to SSR framework
- synergy20 3y ago
  true, the only one remains sane so far, but I'm unsure how long that will last, I lost confidence in frontend as far as keeping-getting-unnecessarily-more-complex is concerned
winter_blue 3y ago
Even a Raspberry Pi Zero that costs $5 retail[0] should be good enough[2] to run modern Linux + a node process running Next.js with SSR. Why do embedded developers pick really resource-constrained chips, when decently powerful chips that can run Linux have become so cheap? [1] probably even cheaper if purchasing B2B, in bulk [2] i.e. should have enough CPU (1 GB) and RAM (512 MB)
- DanielHB 3y ago
  I work with a frontend app that talks with microcontrollers that have 2mb of ram, they don't run linux and can't even support an HTTP stack. We actually use UDP to send messages to them (through a thin native layer in our app) I don't remember the exact numbers as I don't work with the manufacturing side but the budget for our microcontrollers was <0.5 USD per microcontroller > Why do embedded developers pick really resource-constrained chips, when decently powerful chips that can run Linux have become so cheap? 1) Often you have multiple microcontrollers per device 2) It just follows a general trend with industrial manufacturing of always trying to find ways to cut costs. It is not just microcontrollers, after a product is finished, v2 will always strive to cut costs and be cheaper. Components costs grow linearly with production volume. If you sell a million of devices with a 5 USD chip that is 5 million dollars that could have been spent on R&D (maybe like 5 devs working on it full time for a year) 3) Sometimes the microcontrollers are dedicated for security/safety, those you don't want to run linux on because it makes them harder to QA and certify (non determinism doesn't play well with safety). You want them small, lean and as simple/dumb as possible 4) Sourcing problems, advanced chips are harder to source in higher quantities, especially lately. Crappy microcontrollers can be bought like buying legos at the lego store 5) Size, reliability and heat constraints. Bigger chips are harder to integrate into a custom board, require more power and could generate enough heat to cause problems. Integrating a Raspberry CM requires a custom connector with like 50 wires or so and wiring it can be really annoying/error-prone One of our systems had a Raspberry CM3 before, it was the first thing on the chopping block for the v2. Apparently it was the most expensive single electronic component of the whole system.

work_hard93 3y ago

Sometimes I too find getting things out of hand. I have been working as a frontend dev for the last 5 years now , tbh sometimes there are pointless discussions over the app architecture for 90% of the cases it is simple React SPA app + REST APIs , thats it and then people try to put SSR there and what not which tbh is not required even from a business pov. It takes the joy out of things. Although i hear folks say the same about backend , but honestly i have not done backend so cant comment about that, planning to move though