3 ms·

I appreciate what you're doing but we buy DocuSign so the problem is far far away from us. This turns it into a problem we have to manage ourselves or a problem

by baz00 3y ago

I appreciate what you're doing but we buy DocuSign so the problem is far far away from us. This turns it into a problem we have to manage ourselves or a problem of finding a vendor stable enough to host your stuff that will make it not our problem long enough for the longest contract retention to expire. Which is difficult.

yborg 3y ago
I'm sure these problems were also difficult for DocuSign in the beginning.
- baz00 3y ago
  Not really. They actually ran mock trials with legal professionals as test cases. That was an instant win for anyone wanting assurance of admissibility. No open source startup is going to win there because it's about entities and process, supported by technology not technology on its own. The technology is absolutely worthless without the framework and legal entities surrounding it. It's a unique position no one really understands that well.
  - alexopensource 3y ago
    They began when Digital signatures were not understood well even by legal professionals. Somewhere fear might have came in picture. Today, its easier to digest the fact that digital signatures are just cryptographic functions that guarantee the authenticity and integrity of documents and various actions on those docs. Plus the legal framework around it is better defined now. I am confident that we will be able to change the perception and make this the de-facto digital signing solution. The movement has just began, there is a long way ahead.
    - throwaway237289 3y ago
      This answer is incredibly technocratic, and misses the mark on what a digital signature is. A digital signature is a legal construct that stands up in court. The movement might have begun, but you need to change your perception. You have to stop talking like a technocrat and address the business problem that signatures solve.
      - alexopensource 3y ago
        I agree. This is the result of being surrounded by developers all day long lol. Will try to focus more on the business problem.
alexopensource 3y ago
That is a great input, we need to put efforts into ensuring that we are seen as a long term player, in-fact we envision to be one, assuming some contracts might be really long term. I hope a day comes when you trust us enough :)
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  Gaining trust is one thing, I wish you the very best of luck with that. Not losing it is another. The people to preserve trust with are all potential signatories (ie. the public), not the initiating counterparties. Because there are many more of them. Of course this reputation problem is one you'll share with banks, PayPal and every other "official" type entity that phishers want to jump on. Now most "Docusign" communications go straight to my spam folder or /dev/null if arriving by email and not from (forwarded) a whitelisted business I already have a relation with. Those that come directly from Docusign (as sender even if DKIM passes) are ignored unless I think there's a reason to be contacted. Docusign is one of the juiciest spoofing targets for phishing attacks because people act rashly to what they think is something requiring a signature. They also have no timeout on repeat sends, relentlessly spamming users to sign something, which makes them look exactly like, well.... phish-spammers. Try not to make these same mistakes as Docusign.

by baz00 3y ago

yborg 3y ago

I'm sure these problems were also difficult for DocuSign in the beginning.

baz00 3y ago
Not really. They actually ran mock trials with legal professionals as test cases. That was an instant win for anyone wanting assurance of admissibility. No open source startup is going to win there because it's about entities and process, supported by technology not technology on its own. The technology is absolutely worthless without the framework and legal entities surrounding it. It's a unique position no one really understands that well.
- alexopensource 3y ago
  They began when Digital signatures were not understood well even by legal professionals. Somewhere fear might have came in picture. Today, its easier to digest the fact that digital signatures are just cryptographic functions that guarantee the authenticity and integrity of documents and various actions on those docs. Plus the legal framework around it is better defined now. I am confident that we will be able to change the perception and make this the de-facto digital signing solution. The movement has just began, there is a long way ahead.
  - throwaway237289 3y ago
    This answer is incredibly technocratic, and misses the mark on what a digital signature is. A digital signature is a legal construct that stands up in court. The movement might have begun, but you need to change your perception. You have to stop talking like a technocrat and address the business problem that signatures solve.
    - alexopensource 3y ago
      I agree. This is the result of being surrounded by developers all day long lol. Will try to focus more on the business problem.

alexopensource 3y ago

That is a great input, we need to put efforts into ensuring that we are seen as a long term player, in-fact we envision to be one, assuming some contracts might be really long term. I hope a day comes when you trust us enough :)

nonrandomstring 3y ago
Gaining trust is one thing, I wish you the very best of luck with that. Not losing it is another. The people to preserve trust with are all potential signatories (ie. the public), not the initiating counterparties. Because there are many more of them. Of course this reputation problem is one you'll share with banks, PayPal and every other "official" type entity that phishers want to jump on. Now most "Docusign" communications go straight to my spam folder or /dev/null if arriving by email and not from (forwarded) a whitelisted business I already have a relation with. Those that come directly from Docusign (as sender even if DKIM passes) are ignored unless I think there's a reason to be contacted. Docusign is one of the juiciest spoofing targets for phishing attacks because people act rashly to what they think is something requiring a signature. They also have no timeout on repeat sends, relentlessly spamming users to sign something, which makes them look exactly like, well.... phish-spammers. Try not to make these same mistakes as Docusign.