4 ms·
I wonder how much it costs to maintain a system to collect fares compared the small portion of funding most transit systems would lose from going fare free.
by Kye 3y ago
I wonder how much it costs to maintain a system to collect fares compared the small portion of funding most transit systems would lose from going fare free.
- piperswe 3y agoGoing fare free would induce demand which would increase operating costs, so it's not that simple.
- Analemma_ 3y agoThe other thing about going fare-free-- which people don't like to discuss but it is a real effect which has been measured-- is that it causes much more anti-social behavior on the bus, which decreases ridership among people who have only a slight preference for transit versus just driving their car. This not only makes traffic worse (which kinda defeats the whole purpose), it also tanks political support for transit, since fewer voters are using it and then they see no point in supporting it.
- Kye 3y agoCan you point to where you found this measurement? This is the first I've heard of it.
- dmoy 3y agoI first heard of it from the transit union here in Seattle when they axed the downtown free bus zone like 10 years ago. There was some vague mention of the bus drivers in ... somewhere in Texas... like 30 years before that. Beyond that I haven't heard much of it because as I understand it, there isn't much free transit anywhere big.
- NeoTar 3y agoMay I introduce you to the country of Luxembourg that offers free public transport - admittedly one of the smallest nations in Europe in area (2,586.4 km2 (998.6 sq mi)) and population (660,809), but bigger than many cities.
- CrazyStat 3y agoAlso one of the wealthiest countries in the world, with a GDP per capita over 1.5x the United States.
- dmoy 3y agoOk sure, the metro area here served by the bus is like 2.5 million or something.
- PeterStuer 3y agoLuxembourg does not have many homeless, one of the things making free a challenge in other places.
- themadturk 3y agoSeattle got rid of its downtown core free ride area in part because of disruptive and illegal behavior by riders.
- Kye 3y agoAnalemma_'s comment made it sound like some broad and well-studied thing. All I've seen is mention of a single city. This is not remotely enough to support the claim. My claim was based on skimming an article that said fares ranged from about 10 to 50% of funding and I speculated that most probably tended toward 10% since most are small, and small ones depend on federal funding, special purpose taxes (Georgia has a lot of SPLOST[0] projects), and partnerships. Smaller systems suffer from low ridership and might see more benefit from dropping fares. A full bus and an empty bus cost about as much to run, but a system of full buses is easier to bolster and improve because more people will support it. And I don't see why this would be connected to behavior on buses and trains. Where is this research? At least for Seattle since everyone wants to focus on it for some reason. News articles for a single city are not research. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special-purpose_local-option_sales_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special-purpose_local-option_s...
- themadturk 3y agoI'm just stating that was the reason given by Metro and was the public perception at the time. I was among the public affected by it, and my anecdotal experience is that problems on the routes starting in Seattle and ending in the suburbs were fewer after the free fare zone was eliminated. It certainly doesn't consitute reasarch.
- manchego 3y agoI seemed to remember reading something similar about Austin's buses when they went fare-free in the 80s. I found this linked in the Austin CapMetro wiki page: http://www.nctr.usf.edu/pdf/473-132.pdf http://www.nctr.usf.edu/pdf/473-132.pdf
- themadturk 3y ago
- fyrn_ 3y agoCitation needed for that causes anti social behavior claim!
- supertrope 3y agohttps://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/warning-seattles-free-ride-zone-coming-to-an-end/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/warning-seattles-f...
- coryrc 3y agoThey've since refused to ticket people who get on without paying. You can also see plenty of ASB.
- muti 3y agoWhich sounds to me like a good reason to publicly fund it in the first place
- bobthepanda 3y agoDepending on the agency it’s not very small. New York MTA has a farebox recovery of about 40-50% in any given year, and few people or organizations could stomach a pay cut of half without serious damage.
- Kye 3y agoIt seems like a city with a ~$2 trillion economy could afford to fund the transit system that enables it without fare boxes.
- bobthepanda 3y agoIt would represent 10% of the budget of the entire state. New York City has the highest taxes in the country already, and a ten percent hike would almost certainly have to hurt regular citizens as well.
- xnx 3y agoWhoa. Does that mean the other half of the money comes from people who don't use the MTA?
- bobthepanda 3y agoIt comes from general taxes. But thats the same with nearly all transportation infrastructure, people without cars are paying general funds taxes for roads, since gas taxes do not cover all road funding. It’s worth noting that the MTA is necessary for car drivers as well. Whenever it gets knocked out due to a hurricane and travelers switch to driving, there is gridlock across the entire region and travel comes to a screeching halt.