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Thats exactly how I felt. Do these two people feel important trading jabs through their environmentalist Penguin Books? Is this the environmental movement equiv

Thats exactly how I felt. Do these two people feel important trading jabs through their environmentalist Penguin Books? Is this the environmental movement equivalent of a rap battle? It feels really useless and dead to keep "talking away" like this. I dont know who either of these people are, but have they actually saved an indingenous community or improved the diet of a large group? Finding, promoting and selling good engineering and technology solves problems. These guys just seem to want to talk. I find this beyond useless. Want to find solutions? Build them.

davedx 3y ago
You don’t think books with solutions (like the author has written) are useful?
- kranke155 3y ago
  Im sure that some are, but the text that is linked in this particular post - could you explain its usefulness?
  - spicymapotofu 3y ago
    A simple comparison might help: while from the outside this likely looks like the famous "leftist yells at leftist" scenario, the alternative - where a single expert has their theories elevated into law, without room for disagreement, looks a lot like Lysenkoism, and usually results in large-scale suffering with no scientific value (due to mistakes, large or small, in individual theories). I'm not in this field and can't hazard a guess at the exact utility of this dispute, but when I see specialists and the impassioned debating vigorously on their principles, I trust it's because of relevant disagreements in the field, because that's what I observe in my preferred domain. Some amount of slapfighting is inevitable - we're all human - but this is a particularly humane way to hash out differences.
    - kranke155 3y ago
      Lysenko was elevated in an totalitarian environment. It was also related to science, or something like it. This text does not appear much related to a lot of science, more like "someone said something about me and Id like to refute it" but its 40 000 words or something instead of just a small text.
ColonelBlimp 3y ago
>These guys just seem to want to talk. I find this beyond useless. I'm not sure this is how George Monbiot defines himself, but for me he's an intelectual. There's a place and a value in what intelectuals do. They think, they talk, they discuss. Historically, good intelectuals have helped societies identify problems by asking questions and challenging common assumptions (something very difficult to do well). And, of course, we need engineers and people with the right technical skills to develop solutions that improve life in practical ways.

davedx 3y ago

You don’t think books with solutions (like the author has written) are useful?

kranke155 3y ago
Im sure that some are, but the text that is linked in this particular post - could you explain its usefulness?
- spicymapotofu 3y ago
  A simple comparison might help: while from the outside this likely looks like the famous "leftist yells at leftist" scenario, the alternative - where a single expert has their theories elevated into law, without room for disagreement, looks a lot like Lysenkoism, and usually results in large-scale suffering with no scientific value (due to mistakes, large or small, in individual theories). I'm not in this field and can't hazard a guess at the exact utility of this dispute, but when I see specialists and the impassioned debating vigorously on their principles, I trust it's because of relevant disagreements in the field, because that's what I observe in my preferred domain. Some amount of slapfighting is inevitable - we're all human - but this is a particularly humane way to hash out differences.
  - kranke155 3y ago
    Lysenko was elevated in an totalitarian environment. It was also related to science, or something like it. This text does not appear much related to a lot of science, more like "someone said something about me and Id like to refute it" but its 40 000 words or something instead of just a small text.

ColonelBlimp 3y ago

>These guys just seem to want to talk. I find this beyond useless. I'm not sure this is how George Monbiot defines himself, but for me he's an intelectual. There's a place and a value in what intelectuals do. They think, they talk, they discuss. Historically, good intelectuals have helped societies identify problems by asking questions and challenging common assumptions (something very difficult to do well). And, of course, we need engineers and people with the right technical skills to develop solutions that improve life in practical ways.