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It's clear that you interpret the Chinese judiciary system as less transparent and fair than the democratic western counterparts. Yet you analyse and interpret

It's clear that you interpret the Chinese judiciary system as less transparent and fair than the democratic western counterparts. Yet you analyse and interpret laws in the same fashion as a functioning law system. By the same logic I wonder why would you believe anything written in law in a chinese context. So analysing the text would make no sense. China doesn't have a Common Law system and almost certainly the law is exercised differently in different regions. I am simply adding my interpretation of how they are perceived in my limited circle. It's also interesting you referring my 'CCP friends'. As if it's a category of people or an attribute. Virtually everyone born in a city (city HuKou) would be highly likely a party member (and certainly if taking office). Thirdly there are countless protests going on everyday. That's the reason I'm adding my insights as most 'chinese resources' are on social media, transient messages and posts, almost never get covered in the mainstream median. No one denies their existence. But like any movement, there are good and bad sides. What you can reach easily is very likely the end of long pipeline of biased selection. I appreciate your concern of publishing any information regarding recent controversial events. It's common belief for population that only receive biased reporting(again I never say what I read must be true, quite the contrary). Besides it'll be very unlikely that our local judge would know anything about a high profile case like LiFa Peng (would a local officer know a FBI investigation?). These are only visible in the west because they have been escalated to the extreme. Most protests are actually followed up a lot on social media, with the biggest noticable change perhaps being COVID restriction lifted.

T-A 3y ago
> By the same logic I wonder why would you believe anything written in law in a chinese context. China is commonly regarded as a "rule by law" (as opposed to "rule of law") jurisdiction [1]. That doesn't mean that the law is irrelevant; it means that the law is applied if and when it suits the CCP to do so. So if you want to know which powers the CCP is interested in wielding (like the ability to order any Chinese citizen or organization anywhere in the world to assist "intelligence efforts"), you should definitely read the law. > Virtually everyone born in a city (city HuKou) would be highly likely a party member Hardly. As of December 31, 2022, total membership of the Communist Party of China was 98.041 million (taken straight from the "Intra-Party Statistical Bulletin of the Communist Party of China" [2]). More than 99 million people live in the top five cities alone - and there are about a hundred more counting at least one million inhabitants each [3]. > (and certainly if taking office) That I certainly believe. > I appreciate your concern of publishing any information regarding recent controversial events. It's common belief for population that only receive biased reporting(again I never say what I read must be true, quite the contrary). You may want to have a look at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CQBeBpP2-A45lw-zr6mneDuPtSBNWg_8KqgXpWMLcbo/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CQBeBpP2-A45lw-zr6mn... (introduced to us poor misguided receivers of "biased reporting" in [4]). [1] https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/countdown-china/rule-law-%3F%3F-and-rule-law-%3F%3F https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/countdown-china/rule-law-%3... [2] http://www.qstheory.cn/yaowen/2023-06/30/c_1129725174.htm http://www.qstheory.cn/yaowen/2023-06/30/c_1129725174.htm [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_China_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_China_by_pop... [4] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/26/business/china-online-censorship.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/26/business/china-online-cen...
- dumb1224 3y ago
  OK I wanted to pass for valuing both of our time until I read the links... [1] What a blog of pseudo social/political science is that, I've never heard of 'Rule by law' and very much doubt it's genuine valid research. For reference there's always the common complaint of injustice in China attributing to 'Rule by man' [https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/45293/ https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/45293/] instead of rule of law. The legalist (法家) school of thoughts have nothing to do with it (well it was the school to make small weak country in terms of man power to be more efficient in agriculture and economy among other warring states but still doesn't fit). If you read the actual constitution it mandates the democratic dictation against the enemy of the 'proletariat' (i.e public). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_democratic_dictatorship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_democratic_dictator...] So it is unbelievably consistently 'lawful'. I wouldn't want anyone in the world to read chinese law but please bring logical and well researched papers I'll be very interested to read. The list of wrongly accused is from 2013 but majority is from 2019-now. There are 374 resulted in jail sentence (with some suspended). No one is doubting it is bad and my uncle had been jailed in the 90s wrongly over his superiors corruption so you can tell the prevalence back then. Another big factor is that in recent years due to quick response to reports, more cases are being reported to authorities [https://www.12377.cn/ https://www.12377.cn/]. How updated is that list I can't know. Is the equivalent incident rate 1000 times lower in the US, or even zero? I haven't checked. Party member numbers: I meant anyone with at least 3rd tier city level HuKou (which is the insanely backward ancient land-born-based rights for local resources). Use my hometown as an example, while the whole population is 3,4 million (4 counties in one city). The 'urban' HuKou is only 540,000 Using googled stats https://www.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_22126669 https://www.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_22126669 https://www.statista.com/statistics/270163/age-distribution-in-china/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/270163/age-distribution-... there are fewer people if you account for people aged between 20 and 60 (usually you would need to go through the previous prep youth group stage). The membership is as easy as joining a local gym. All my older family members are in party despite that they do nothing related to the government. Basically I'm saying party and population in 3rd city level HuKou holder are one. Lastly I apologies if my commenting in English is so terrible that what I meant by 'bias' is confusing you. These might all be true but funneling one-sided or eye-catching stories only is the definition of biased reporting for me. Yes we don't have US/UK style press but it doesn't mean they don't get covered.

T-A 3y ago

> By the same logic I wonder why would you believe anything written in law in a chinese context. China is commonly regarded as a "rule by law" (as opposed to "rule of law") jurisdiction [1]. That doesn't mean that the law is irrelevant; it means that the law is applied if and when it suits the CCP to do so. So if you want to know which powers the CCP is interested in wielding (like the ability to order any Chinese citizen or organization anywhere in the world to assist "intelligence efforts"), you should definitely read the law. > Virtually everyone born in a city (city HuKou) would be highly likely a party member Hardly. As of December 31, 2022, total membership of the Communist Party of China was 98.041 million (taken straight from the "Intra-Party Statistical Bulletin of the Communist Party of China" [2]). More than 99 million people live in the top five cities alone - and there are about a hundred more counting at least one million inhabitants each [3]. > (and certainly if taking office) That I certainly believe. > I appreciate your concern of publishing any information regarding recent controversial events. It's common belief for population that only receive biased reporting(again I never say what I read must be true, quite the contrary). You may want to have a look at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CQBeBpP2-A45lw-zr6mneDuPtSBNWg_8KqgXpWMLcbo/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CQBeBpP2-A45lw-zr6mn... (introduced to us poor misguided receivers of "biased reporting" in [4]). [1] https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/countdown-china/rule-law-%3F%3F-and-rule-law-%3F%3F https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/countdown-china/rule-law-%3... [2] http://www.qstheory.cn/yaowen/2023-06/30/c_1129725174.htm http://www.qstheory.cn/yaowen/2023-06/30/c_1129725174.htm [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_China_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_China_by_pop... [4] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/26/business/china-online-censorship.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/26/business/china-online-cen...

dumb1224 3y ago
OK I wanted to pass for valuing both of our time until I read the links... [1] What a blog of pseudo social/political science is that, I've never heard of 'Rule by law' and very much doubt it's genuine valid research. For reference there's always the common complaint of injustice in China attributing to 'Rule by man' [https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/45293/ https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/45293/] instead of rule of law. The legalist (法家) school of thoughts have nothing to do with it (well it was the school to make small weak country in terms of man power to be more efficient in agriculture and economy among other warring states but still doesn't fit). If you read the actual constitution it mandates the democratic dictation against the enemy of the 'proletariat' (i.e public). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_democratic_dictatorship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_democratic_dictator...] So it is unbelievably consistently 'lawful'. I wouldn't want anyone in the world to read chinese law but please bring logical and well researched papers I'll be very interested to read. The list of wrongly accused is from 2013 but majority is from 2019-now. There are 374 resulted in jail sentence (with some suspended). No one is doubting it is bad and my uncle had been jailed in the 90s wrongly over his superiors corruption so you can tell the prevalence back then. Another big factor is that in recent years due to quick response to reports, more cases are being reported to authorities [https://www.12377.cn/ https://www.12377.cn/]. How updated is that list I can't know. Is the equivalent incident rate 1000 times lower in the US, or even zero? I haven't checked. Party member numbers: I meant anyone with at least 3rd tier city level HuKou (which is the insanely backward ancient land-born-based rights for local resources). Use my hometown as an example, while the whole population is 3,4 million (4 counties in one city). The 'urban' HuKou is only 540,000 Using googled stats https://www.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_22126669 https://www.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_22126669 https://www.statista.com/statistics/270163/age-distribution-in-china/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/270163/age-distribution-... there are fewer people if you account for people aged between 20 and 60 (usually you would need to go through the previous prep youth group stage). The membership is as easy as joining a local gym. All my older family members are in party despite that they do nothing related to the government. Basically I'm saying party and population in 3rd city level HuKou holder are one. Lastly I apologies if my commenting in English is so terrible that what I meant by 'bias' is confusing you. These might all be true but funneling one-sided or eye-catching stories only is the definition of biased reporting for me. Yes we don't have US/UK style press but it doesn't mean they don't get covered.