3 ms·

> The argument in which he participates is a crucial one, the divisions are real and the debate needs to be had. Sorry, sir. We are in a reductionist moment in

> The argument in which he participates is a crucial one, the divisions are real and the debate needs to be had. Sorry, sir. We are in a reductionist moment in history, where sides have been chosen; judgements made; debate stifled; views anathematized; and conflict reduced to an inevitable choice that is the fault of "other".

TOGoS 3y ago
I understood this comment about as well as I understood the article.
- jfengel 3y ago
  TL;DR Modern farming is extremely bad. Old farming was insufficient. Some guy wrote a book that misunderstands why I say that.
  - pfdietz 3y ago
    "And I'm going to figuratively carve him to pieces for your enjoyment."
jfengel 3y ago
Debate doesn't seem the least bit stifled to me. Just the opposite: there is so much that we can't actually come to any conclusions. Coming to conclusions and debating really are in opposition.
- smitty1e 3y ago
  There is no debate in the sense of dispassionately presenting facts; sincerely seeking to understand the merits of the opposing view; being willing to own fault where factually based; accepting compromise, &c. Unless I've missed, like, a lot.
  - jfengel 3y ago
    There's plenty of it. It is fairly quiet and mostly happening well away from the places people go for "debate". Often, conclusions are reached and the people drawing them move on to the next thing. The people seeking "debate" don't find answers because they don't know how to look.
    - smitty1e 3y ago
      By all means, please link these (non-)famous places. Social media is so much Argument Clinic[1] crammed into the vastness of cyberspace. [1] https://youtu.be/uLlv_aZjHXc?si=5rmU6k71lJvJnhro https://youtu.be/uLlv_aZjHXc?si=5rmU6k71lJvJnhro
      - wizzwizz4 3y ago
        It's not happening in “places”. That's the whole point. (If you trawl through my comment history, you'll notice I argue a lot on Hacker News, but that's very much a “hail Mary”: the learning and changing-my-mind is all happening elsewhere – “in the real world”, so to speak.)

TOGoS 3y ago

I understood this comment about as well as I understood the article.

jfengel 3y ago
TL;DR Modern farming is extremely bad. Old farming was insufficient. Some guy wrote a book that misunderstands why I say that.
- pfdietz 3y ago
  "And I'm going to figuratively carve him to pieces for your enjoyment."

jfengel 3y ago

Debate doesn't seem the least bit stifled to me. Just the opposite: there is so much that we can't actually come to any conclusions. Coming to conclusions and debating really are in opposition.

smitty1e 3y ago
There is no debate in the sense of dispassionately presenting facts; sincerely seeking to understand the merits of the opposing view; being willing to own fault where factually based; accepting compromise, &c. Unless I've missed, like, a lot.
- jfengel 3y ago
  There's plenty of it. It is fairly quiet and mostly happening well away from the places people go for "debate". Often, conclusions are reached and the people drawing them move on to the next thing. The people seeking "debate" don't find answers because they don't know how to look.
  - smitty1e 3y ago
    By all means, please link these (non-)famous places. Social media is so much Argument Clinic[1] crammed into the vastness of cyberspace. [1] https://youtu.be/uLlv_aZjHXc?si=5rmU6k71lJvJnhro https://youtu.be/uLlv_aZjHXc?si=5rmU6k71lJvJnhro
    - wizzwizz4 3y ago
      It's not happening in “places”. That's the whole point. (If you trawl through my comment history, you'll notice I argue a lot on Hacker News, but that's very much a “hail Mary”: the learning and changing-my-mind is all happening elsewhere – “in the real world”, so to speak.)