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a blockade of food, water and electricity, all crucial, especially when you are confined in a small area with low resources and a lot of people is a genocide. c

by hbt 3y ago

a blockade of food, water and electricity, all crucial, especially when you are confined in a small area with low resources and a lot of people is a genocide. combine it with a bombing campaign that is indiscriminately targeting civilians and their infrastructure, from internet to hospitals is a war crime. keep in mind the blockade and hindering the economic development of Gaza is not new. there is no such thing as eradicating hamas because Israel and its policies are a recruitment tool. This conflict will continue and the children today will be fighting in a few years because what choice do they have than resist. The palestinians don't hide that their high fertility rate is politically motivated and have structured their society to marry young and have a lot of children as it is an act of Resistance. not all children make it, the malnutrition rate was around 15%. again, all caused by Israel as they have control major aspects of that open air prison. I think if you are shooting fish in a barrel and the international community lets you do it, you don't get to complain about the splashes and you certainly shouldn't be claiming the moral high ground. no matter how much the politicians or corporate mainstream media keep repeating it, Israel and its apartheid genocidal policies don't have international support.

edanm 3y ago
> a blockade of food, water and electricity, all crucial, especially when you are confined in a small area with low resources and a lot of people is a genocide. [...] keep in mind the blockade and hindering the economic development of Gaza is not new. The blockade of food and water is new. And if you're saying this is not new, how can it be a genocide if people aren't dying because of it? Genocide is defined as killing off a population, but while life is certainly not great for Gazans (to say the least), Israel is not killing them. > combine it with a bombing campaign that is indiscriminately targeting civilians and their infrastructure, from internet to hospitals is a war crime. Your facts are wrong. It's not indiscriminate shooting. Israel is targeting militants, which make it not a war crime. It is an unfortunate (truly unfortunate!) reality that the militants choose to place themselves among civilians, including under hospitals, on purpose, which means that Hamas is responsible for two crimes - both shooting at Israelis, and getting Israel to fire back on their own civilians that they are supposed to protect. > there is no such thing as eradicating hamas because Israel and its policies are a recruitment tool. This conflict will continue and the children today will be fighting in a few years because what choice do they have than resist. Well there is eradicating Hamas. It is a specific group with specific people in it. ISIS was eradicated, after all. But yes, it's a complicated situation. But there is a choice other than resist - if they give up on the idea of getting back all of Israel (which effectively means eradicating the Israeli state), if and they give up armed resistance, there could be peace tomorrow. The Palestinians have had many deals put forward and chose to continue fighting. I really wish there was a for everyone to get what they want, but if what they want is for my country to disappear - well, sorry, what am I supposed to say to that other than no? > not all children make it, the malnutrition rate was around 15%. again, all caused by Israel as they have control major aspects of that open air prison. Just to be clear, Egypt is also blockading Gaza. No one is blaming Egypt, and no one is committing terror acts against Egypt. Why is that? Also, you call it an open-air prison, in what sense? Gaza is under the control of Hamas, Israel left it twenty years ago. All they've done since then is wage war against Israel.
- hbt 3y ago
  >> The blockade of food and water is new. It's not new. Food insecurity has been an issue for years. The blockade has caused severe food insecurity and malnutrition among the 2.3 million people living in Gaza⁴⁵. According to the World Food Program (WFP), more than 60% of households in Gaza are food insecure and rely on humanitarian assistance⁵. The blockade has also affected the availability and quality of food in Gaza, as many products are scarce, expensive or expired⁵. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/un-report-80-per-cent-of-gaza-inhabitants-relied-on-international-aid-before-war https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/un-report-80-p... >> how can it be a genocide if people aren't dying because of it? I'm not waiting to see what happens when people are starved for weeks and I'm not the only one calling it a genocide: - https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evide... - https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/28/kilj-o28.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/28/kilj-o28.html >> It's not indiscriminate shooting. The strength of hamas is their tunnels and underground networks and how they use them to traffic weapons, goods and people to circumvent the blockades. That's the source of their power and bombing buildings changes little to Hamas infrastructure or leadership (which is in Qatar/overseas). Even destroying civilian infrastructure like cell towers and Internet does little. Hamas uses hardwired lines and radios as again, the city is small enough to be called a prison and they are fully aware of Israeli digital surveillance. Did bombing civilian villages change anything to Viet Cong tunnels in Vietnam? Or, the allies during WW2 bombing campaigns in Japan and Germany, did it rally the people against the authorities? The answer to both is no. >> If and they give up armed resistance, there could be peace tomorrow. The Palestinians have had many deals put forward and chose to continue fighting. Honestly, if you want to continue this conversation, I'm open to discussing those deals and brainstorming solutions such as grassroot peacebuilding projects, virtual diplomacy (difficult now that the population is voiceless, huh?), and economic integration. But, I don't believe it's honest to say Israel has displayed good will when Israel has implemented a system of permits and licenses that restricts the ability of Palestinian workers and businesses to access Israeli markets. Palestinians face limitations on exporting their products to Israeli and international markets, which can hinder economic growth and development. Any palestinian allowed to work are usually limited to agriculture and construction sector and often restricted to the occupied / settler zones. I want to define "Grassroots Peacebuilding" clearly because it's something I'm interested in and I believe in the power of individuals: "Prioritizing grassroots initiatives that bring Israelis and Palestinians together for dialogue, joint projects, and community-building activities can help build trust and understanding from the ground up. This approach emphasizes the power of individuals and communities to drive change." >> Egypt is also blockading Gaza. No one is blaming Egypt, and no one is committing terror acts against Egypt. Why is that? People are not blaming Egypt because it's not bombing Gaza and preparing a ground invasion. Egypt is blockading Gaza (as evidenced by the fact the border was only open for 23 days in 2022) https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/6/15/the-seven-border-crossings-of-gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/6/15/the-seven-borde... The rationale for the Egypt blockade as I understand is: - Egypt considers Hamas a threat as it is an offshoot of the Muslism Brotherhood which was ousted from power in 2013. - Egypt accuses Hamas of supporting militant groups in the Sinai Peninsula, where Egypt has been fighting a long insurgency https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/egypt-arab-countries-unwilling-palestinian-refugees-gaza-104083766 https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/egypt-arab-co... - Egypt also wants to maintain its peace treaty with Israel, which it signed in 1979. By preserving the status quo of the blockade until a lasting solution is foudn, Egypt maintains its role as a mediator and is not undermined by siding with one party over the other. It also continues to benefit from economic and military aid from the United States https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/egypt-arab-countries-unwilling-palestinian-refugees-gaza-104083766 https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/egypt-arab-co... and avoids fueling the conflict which could spill into its borders as it already hosts millions of refugees from conflicts in Syria, Sudan, Ethiopia etc. Please note I have to get going with my day but I will reply later. Thank you Edit: because I got my links mixed up
lobocinza 3y ago
> The palestinians don't hide that their high fertility rate is politically motivated and have structured their society to marry young and have a lot of children as it is an act of Resistance. You hit the nail in the head. Why they don't pursue peace? Why they engage in Jihad?

by hbt 3y ago

edanm 3y ago

> a blockade of food, water and electricity, all crucial, especially when you are confined in a small area with low resources and a lot of people is a genocide. [...] keep in mind the blockade and hindering the economic development of Gaza is not new. The blockade of food and water is new. And if you're saying this is not new, how can it be a genocide if people aren't dying because of it? Genocide is defined as killing off a population, but while life is certainly not great for Gazans (to say the least), Israel is not killing them. > combine it with a bombing campaign that is indiscriminately targeting civilians and their infrastructure, from internet to hospitals is a war crime. Your facts are wrong. It's not indiscriminate shooting. Israel is targeting militants, which make it not a war crime. It is an unfortunate (truly unfortunate!) reality that the militants choose to place themselves among civilians, including under hospitals, on purpose, which means that Hamas is responsible for two crimes - both shooting at Israelis, and getting Israel to fire back on their own civilians that they are supposed to protect. > there is no such thing as eradicating hamas because Israel and its policies are a recruitment tool. This conflict will continue and the children today will be fighting in a few years because what choice do they have than resist. Well there is eradicating Hamas. It is a specific group with specific people in it. ISIS was eradicated, after all. But yes, it's a complicated situation. But there is a choice other than resist - if they give up on the idea of getting back all of Israel (which effectively means eradicating the Israeli state), if and they give up armed resistance, there could be peace tomorrow. The Palestinians have had many deals put forward and chose to continue fighting. I really wish there was a for everyone to get what they want, but if what they want is for my country to disappear - well, sorry, what am I supposed to say to that other than no? > not all children make it, the malnutrition rate was around 15%. again, all caused by Israel as they have control major aspects of that open air prison. Just to be clear, Egypt is also blockading Gaza. No one is blaming Egypt, and no one is committing terror acts against Egypt. Why is that? Also, you call it an open-air prison, in what sense? Gaza is under the control of Hamas, Israel left it twenty years ago. All they've done since then is wage war against Israel.

hbt 3y ago
>> The blockade of food and water is new. It's not new. Food insecurity has been an issue for years. The blockade has caused severe food insecurity and malnutrition among the 2.3 million people living in Gaza⁴⁵. According to the World Food Program (WFP), more than 60% of households in Gaza are food insecure and rely on humanitarian assistance⁵. The blockade has also affected the availability and quality of food in Gaza, as many products are scarce, expensive or expired⁵. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/un-report-80-per-cent-of-gaza-inhabitants-relied-on-international-aid-before-war https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/un-report-80-p... >> how can it be a genocide if people aren't dying because of it? I'm not waiting to see what happens when people are starved for weeks and I'm not the only one calling it a genocide: - https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evide... - https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/28/kilj-o28.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/28/kilj-o28.html >> It's not indiscriminate shooting. The strength of hamas is their tunnels and underground networks and how they use them to traffic weapons, goods and people to circumvent the blockades. That's the source of their power and bombing buildings changes little to Hamas infrastructure or leadership (which is in Qatar/overseas). Even destroying civilian infrastructure like cell towers and Internet does little. Hamas uses hardwired lines and radios as again, the city is small enough to be called a prison and they are fully aware of Israeli digital surveillance. Did bombing civilian villages change anything to Viet Cong tunnels in Vietnam? Or, the allies during WW2 bombing campaigns in Japan and Germany, did it rally the people against the authorities? The answer to both is no. >> If and they give up armed resistance, there could be peace tomorrow. The Palestinians have had many deals put forward and chose to continue fighting. Honestly, if you want to continue this conversation, I'm open to discussing those deals and brainstorming solutions such as grassroot peacebuilding projects, virtual diplomacy (difficult now that the population is voiceless, huh?), and economic integration. But, I don't believe it's honest to say Israel has displayed good will when Israel has implemented a system of permits and licenses that restricts the ability of Palestinian workers and businesses to access Israeli markets. Palestinians face limitations on exporting their products to Israeli and international markets, which can hinder economic growth and development. Any palestinian allowed to work are usually limited to agriculture and construction sector and often restricted to the occupied / settler zones. I want to define "Grassroots Peacebuilding" clearly because it's something I'm interested in and I believe in the power of individuals: "Prioritizing grassroots initiatives that bring Israelis and Palestinians together for dialogue, joint projects, and community-building activities can help build trust and understanding from the ground up. This approach emphasizes the power of individuals and communities to drive change." >> Egypt is also blockading Gaza. No one is blaming Egypt, and no one is committing terror acts against Egypt. Why is that? People are not blaming Egypt because it's not bombing Gaza and preparing a ground invasion. Egypt is blockading Gaza (as evidenced by the fact the border was only open for 23 days in 2022) https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/6/15/the-seven-border-crossings-of-gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/6/15/the-seven-borde... The rationale for the Egypt blockade as I understand is: - Egypt considers Hamas a threat as it is an offshoot of the Muslism Brotherhood which was ousted from power in 2013. - Egypt accuses Hamas of supporting militant groups in the Sinai Peninsula, where Egypt has been fighting a long insurgency https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/egypt-arab-countries-unwilling-palestinian-refugees-gaza-104083766 https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/egypt-arab-co... - Egypt also wants to maintain its peace treaty with Israel, which it signed in 1979. By preserving the status quo of the blockade until a lasting solution is foudn, Egypt maintains its role as a mediator and is not undermined by siding with one party over the other. It also continues to benefit from economic and military aid from the United States https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/egypt-arab-countries-unwilling-palestinian-refugees-gaza-104083766 https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/egypt-arab-co... and avoids fueling the conflict which could spill into its borders as it already hosts millions of refugees from conflicts in Syria, Sudan, Ethiopia etc. Please note I have to get going with my day but I will reply later. Thank you Edit: because I got my links mixed up

lobocinza 3y ago

> The palestinians don't hide that their high fertility rate is politically motivated and have structured their society to marry young and have a lot of children as it is an act of Resistance. You hit the nail in the head. Why they don't pursue peace? Why they engage in Jihad?