5 ms·

Magnetically Modelling MagSafe

79 points by kavinaidoo 3y ago

3seashells 3y ago
Magnetic connectors were the bane of my existence with laptops on industrial manufacturing or actually any place that produces occasionally Metall swarf. Classic designers and engineers ignoring use cases.
stereo 3y ago
The web server seems to have received the HN hug of death, but there's a video by the same author at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAMtdQ-h_dk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAMtdQ-h_dk There's also a cached version of an old magsafe article on that website by the same author at https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:msNKQIOLH8AJ:https://kavi.sblmnl.co.za/magsafe-on-iphone/&hl=en&gl=us https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:msNKQI...
- tjoff 3y ago
  Ah, that magsafe. As an android user that is the only thing I yearn from the iphone. Feels like a requirement to do wireless charging (note, I have not played with wireless charging despite having it on and off since 2010, so I could be mistaken).
  - skyyler 3y ago
    It was how wireless charging worked in the Palm ecosystem, with their touchstone wireless charging dock. That was around 2010, as well.
    - buildbot 3y ago
      It was a really great feature, really well implemented too. It’s sad webos and the palm pre never really took off.
      - arcticbull 3y ago
        Agreed, webOS was really cool. It ended up acquired by HP and subsequently LG who use it for TVs now. https://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/smart-tv/use https://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/smart-tv/use
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - rmellow 3y ago
    Magsafe is not wireless charging. A Magsafe cable/port is a "trip safe" charging system, as the power cable is attached to the computer solely by magnets so that it will not break the port if yanked out at an angle.
    - tjoff 3y ago
      No, the article (and linked youtube) is about the magnets on an iphone (apparently also called magsafe, hence the "that magsafe" part of my comment). This, among other benefits, aligns the phone perfectly and thus alleviates wireless charging alignment issues. Which at least 10 years ago used to be a big issue. Not sure how current iterations perform.
      - alpaca128 3y ago
        This magsafe wireless charging system is great, although you still have to make sure it actually starts charging because the magnets can align it incorrectly if the phone placement is too far off.
        JoBrad 3y ago
        I’m not sure how this would happen, if your case fits the phone correctly. When I put a MagSafe case on my phone, I get an animation showing that it fit. Subsequent attachment of MagSafe components just need to align with the case, since the case is already aligned with the phone.
        8ytecoder 3y ago
        I’ve not had that happen ever. MagSafe manages to align the phone perfectly.
    - mort96 3y ago
      The magsafe cable/port you're talking about exists, and is on the current line of MacBook Pros. However, the magsafe feature on iPhones is something completely different, it's the system where they have magnets in the back of the phone which can be used to attach various accessories, attach the phone to mounts, or guide the phone to rest correctly on wireless charging pads.
  - Arainach 3y ago
    If Peak Design makes a case for your phone, they're Magsafe-compatible. Probably not literally to the spec, but they've worked with every accessory I've tried, chargers included.
    - tjoff 3y ago
      Thanks, it is compatible and I've been eyeballing one since my comment :) I'm not a fan of cases, so it hinges on how bulky it is. But it looks like a solid product. My understanding is that Qi2 will be magsafe-compatible, which bodes well for future android phones and accessory support.
- afandian 3y ago
  Are magstripe cards expected to survive that?
  - alexdbird 3y ago
    That's not an issue in most of the world; I don't think any of my current cards have ever been swiped. However there are still plenty of transit tickets that use a magstripe, and having those wiped is super inconvenient.
    - somehnguy 3y ago
      Hotel keys are what comes to mind as the only cards that I still swipe. A year ago I checked into a hotel and went back out to the car to grab my stuff - when getting back in I learned that I had immediately wiped the magstrip by putting it in my phone pocket. Had to reroute right back to the front desk.
    - IggleSniggle 3y ago
      I lost the ability to use a parking exit card (mag swipe) due to a having a magnet in my wallet a year ago.
    - LtWorf 3y ago
      I was in vacation in greece and we had issues because seemingly the phones reset their magnetic keys, so we needed a new one daily until we were told to keep them in a different pocket.
  - NavinF 3y ago
    All the magstripes on my credit cards, library card, etc survived magstripes for over 2 years now. Tho I guess I wouldn't know if a card got wiped recently since I've been using contactless+biometric payments for almost the same length of time in the US. I've had paper magstripes (Paris metro tickets) wiped by magsafe so it's technically possible if the magstripe is extremely cheap/weak. IIRC metros are phasing out paper tickets for this reason
  - dontlaugh 3y ago
andreareina 3y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20231028092556/https://kavi.sblmnl.co.za/magnetically-modelling-magsafe/ https://web.archive.org/web/20231028092556/https://kavi.sblm...
willis936 3y ago
Does anyone have some magnetic film and a second camera? I'd like to see the field cross section. https://www.magnetshop.com/magnet-accessories/magnetic-field-viewing-film.html#1 https://www.magnetshop.com/magnet-accessories/magnetic-field...
- j_bum 3y ago
  MKBHD did this with the iPhone 13 Pro: https://youtu.be/dSL6KiMeNOI?si=rI0-FYrf0ZHt9FYQ https://youtu.be/dSL6KiMeNOI?si=rI0-FYrf0ZHt9FYQ Magnet paper goes on at around 0:15
  - anfractuosity 3y ago
    There's also another type of magnetic viewing film that doesn't seem to use oil filled capsules with flakes of metal in. This is a picture I just took, it doesn't really do it justice but you can get rainbow like effects from it - https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/mag2.jpg https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/mag2.jpg This is the same film with a special type of cylindrical magnet below - https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/mag1.jpg https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/mag1.jpg Edit: It seems to be this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetochromism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetochromism it seems to use encapsulated iron oxide nanoparticles in water in a film
    - philsnow 3y ago
      United Nuclear has those https://unitednuclear.com/magnaview-film-p-629.html https://unitednuclear.com/magnaview-film-p-629.html
      - anfractuosity 3y ago
        That looks like the type with nickel flakes to me (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field_viewing_film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field_viewing_film), as it's not showing different colours This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfdq3oA6-4M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfdq3oA6-4M shows the colours better than my photos
kavinaidoo 3y ago
It appears that my web hosting can't survive hacker news. Sorry for that! Thanks to andreareina for commenting a working archive link. Also thanks to stereo for commenting my intro YouTube video and another post I wrote on MagSafe.
- RGBCube 3y ago
  The costs of not using Cloudflare :)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
linuxdude314 3y ago
Was expecting to see Maxwell’s equations and an actual model of MagSafes magnetism. This is more or less an exploded diagram.
peter_d_sherman 3y ago
There's something weird-but-interesting (or interesting-but-weird, if you prefer!) going on here... The following image, while not the best representation, alludes to it... https://web.archive.org/web/20231027215551im_/https://kavi.sblmnl.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/magforcesv2.gif https://web.archive.org/web/20231027215551im_/https://kavi.s... Basically, the way I conceptualize it, is as follows: Given two simple magnets (A and C) in motion, approaching one another's proximity, but not on the same plane so as to cause impact, as might be the case inside of an electric motor -- the magnetic flux will swing in normal predictable ways... Nothing to see there... But given four (or more) magnets, A, B, C, D -- where A and B are close to one another and fixed in position and cannot move relative to one another, but both of them can move as a group, relative to magnets C and D (who are also similarly fixed in position near one another, and can't move relative to one another, but both C and D can move as a group, relative to the position of A and B)... Well, given all of that, there would seem to be some magnetic arrangements of A and B (and C and D) -- where the fields generated by the combined orientation of A and B -- will swing wildly when approached (and subsequently receded by) C and D... These magnetic arrangements, orientations, of 4 magnets or more, with sets of two being fixed in position -- could be worth exploring -- based on the wild field swings they could potentially produce... Applications? Well, I don't as-of-yet know! But the future, I'm sure -- might invent some! For now however -- it might make for some interesting, purely curiosity-driven explorations!

79 points by kavinaidoo 3y ago

Magnetic connectors were the bane of my existence with laptops on industrial manufacturing or actually any place that produces occasionally Metall swarf. Classic designers and engineers ignoring use cases.

stereo 3y ago

The web server seems to have received the HN hug of death, but there's a video by the same author at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAMtdQ-h_dk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAMtdQ-h_dk There's also a cached version of an old magsafe article on that website by the same author at https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:msNKQIOLH8AJ:https://kavi.sblmnl.co.za/magsafe-on-iphone/&hl=en&gl=us https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:msNKQI...

tjoff 3y ago
Ah, that magsafe. As an android user that is the only thing I yearn from the iphone. Feels like a requirement to do wireless charging (note, I have not played with wireless charging despite having it on and off since 2010, so I could be mistaken).
- skyyler 3y ago
  It was how wireless charging worked in the Palm ecosystem, with their touchstone wireless charging dock. That was around 2010, as well.
  - buildbot 3y ago
    It was a really great feature, really well implemented too. It’s sad webos and the palm pre never really took off.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      Agreed, webOS was really cool. It ended up acquired by HP and subsequently LG who use it for TVs now. https://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/smart-tv/use https://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/smart-tv/use
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- rmellow 3y ago
  Magsafe is not wireless charging. A Magsafe cable/port is a "trip safe" charging system, as the power cable is attached to the computer solely by magnets so that it will not break the port if yanked out at an angle.
  - tjoff 3y ago
    No, the article (and linked youtube) is about the magnets on an iphone (apparently also called magsafe, hence the "that magsafe" part of my comment). This, among other benefits, aligns the phone perfectly and thus alleviates wireless charging alignment issues. Which at least 10 years ago used to be a big issue. Not sure how current iterations perform.
    - alpaca128 3y ago
      This magsafe wireless charging system is great, although you still have to make sure it actually starts charging because the magnets can align it incorrectly if the phone placement is too far off.
      - JoBrad 3y ago
        I’m not sure how this would happen, if your case fits the phone correctly. When I put a MagSafe case on my phone, I get an animation showing that it fit. Subsequent attachment of MagSafe components just need to align with the case, since the case is already aligned with the phone.
      - 8ytecoder 3y ago
        I’ve not had that happen ever. MagSafe manages to align the phone perfectly.
  - mort96 3y ago
    The magsafe cable/port you're talking about exists, and is on the current line of MacBook Pros. However, the magsafe feature on iPhones is something completely different, it's the system where they have magnets in the back of the phone which can be used to attach various accessories, attach the phone to mounts, or guide the phone to rest correctly on wireless charging pads.
- Arainach 3y ago
  If Peak Design makes a case for your phone, they're Magsafe-compatible. Probably not literally to the spec, but they've worked with every accessory I've tried, chargers included.
  - tjoff 3y ago
    Thanks, it is compatible and I've been eyeballing one since my comment :) I'm not a fan of cases, so it hinges on how bulky it is. But it looks like a solid product. My understanding is that Qi2 will be magsafe-compatible, which bodes well for future android phones and accessory support.
afandian 3y ago
Are magstripe cards expected to survive that?
- alexdbird 3y ago
  That's not an issue in most of the world; I don't think any of my current cards have ever been swiped. However there are still plenty of transit tickets that use a magstripe, and having those wiped is super inconvenient.
  - somehnguy 3y ago
    Hotel keys are what comes to mind as the only cards that I still swipe. A year ago I checked into a hotel and went back out to the car to grab my stuff - when getting back in I learned that I had immediately wiped the magstrip by putting it in my phone pocket. Had to reroute right back to the front desk.
  - IggleSniggle 3y ago
    I lost the ability to use a parking exit card (mag swipe) due to a having a magnet in my wallet a year ago.
  - LtWorf 3y ago
    I was in vacation in greece and we had issues because seemingly the phones reset their magnetic keys, so we needed a new one daily until we were told to keep them in a different pocket.
- NavinF 3y ago
  All the magstripes on my credit cards, library card, etc survived magstripes for over 2 years now. Tho I guess I wouldn't know if a card got wiped recently since I've been using contactless+biometric payments for almost the same length of time in the US. I've had paper magstripes (Paris metro tickets) wiped by magsafe so it's technically possible if the magstripe is extremely cheap/weak. IIRC metros are phasing out paper tickets for this reason
- dontlaugh 3y ago

andreareina 3y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20231028092556/https://kavi.sblmnl.co.za/magnetically-modelling-magsafe/ https://web.archive.org/web/20231028092556/https://kavi.sblm...

willis936 3y ago

Does anyone have some magnetic film and a second camera? I'd like to see the field cross section. https://www.magnetshop.com/magnet-accessories/magnetic-field-viewing-film.html#1 https://www.magnetshop.com/magnet-accessories/magnetic-field...

j_bum 3y ago
MKBHD did this with the iPhone 13 Pro: https://youtu.be/dSL6KiMeNOI?si=rI0-FYrf0ZHt9FYQ https://youtu.be/dSL6KiMeNOI?si=rI0-FYrf0ZHt9FYQ Magnet paper goes on at around 0:15
- anfractuosity 3y ago
  There's also another type of magnetic viewing film that doesn't seem to use oil filled capsules with flakes of metal in. This is a picture I just took, it doesn't really do it justice but you can get rainbow like effects from it - https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/mag2.jpg https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/mag2.jpg This is the same film with a special type of cylindrical magnet below - https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/mag1.jpg https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/mag1.jpg Edit: It seems to be this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetochromism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetochromism it seems to use encapsulated iron oxide nanoparticles in water in a film
  - philsnow 3y ago
    United Nuclear has those https://unitednuclear.com/magnaview-film-p-629.html https://unitednuclear.com/magnaview-film-p-629.html
    - anfractuosity 3y ago
      That looks like the type with nickel flakes to me (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field_viewing_film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field_viewing_film), as it's not showing different colours This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfdq3oA6-4M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfdq3oA6-4M shows the colours better than my photos

kavinaidoo 3y ago

It appears that my web hosting can't survive hacker news. Sorry for that! Thanks to andreareina for commenting a working archive link. Also thanks to stereo for commenting my intro YouTube video and another post I wrote on MagSafe.

RGBCube 3y ago
The costs of not using Cloudflare :)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

linuxdude314 3y ago

Was expecting to see Maxwell’s equations and an actual model of MagSafes magnetism. This is more or less an exploded diagram.

peter_d_sherman 3y ago

There's something weird-but-interesting (or interesting-but-weird, if you prefer!) going on here... The following image, while not the best representation, alludes to it... https://web.archive.org/web/20231027215551im_/https://kavi.sblmnl.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/magforcesv2.gif https://web.archive.org/web/20231027215551im_/https://kavi.s... Basically, the way I conceptualize it, is as follows: Given two simple magnets (A and C) in motion, approaching one another's proximity, but not on the same plane so as to cause impact, as might be the case inside of an electric motor -- the magnetic flux will swing in normal predictable ways... Nothing to see there... But given four (or more) magnets, A, B, C, D -- where A and B are close to one another and fixed in position and cannot move relative to one another, but both of them can move as a group, relative to magnets C and D (who are also similarly fixed in position near one another, and can't move relative to one another, but both C and D can move as a group, relative to the position of A and B)... Well, given all of that, there would seem to be some magnetic arrangements of A and B (and C and D) -- where the fields generated by the combined orientation of A and B -- will swing wildly when approached (and subsequently receded by) C and D... These magnetic arrangements, orientations, of 4 magnets or more, with sets of two being fixed in position -- could be worth exploring -- based on the wild field swings they could potentially produce... Applications? Well, I don't as-of-yet know! But the future, I'm sure -- might invent some! For now however -- it might make for some interesting, purely curiosity-driven explorations!