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Over the years, I've found that the "nurture is the only thing that matters" camp is typically intensely self-delusional. Despite hard evidence to the contrary

Over the years, I've found that the "nurture is the only thing that matters" camp is typically intensely self-delusional. Despite hard evidence to the contrary, some people really really want to pretend that all human brains are equally capable. For example, instances of cognitive disability due to macroscopically visible brain structure deviations or brain damage are usually brushed away as "Well that's just a disability and therefore it doesn't count! All the other brains are the same!"

mhuffman 3y ago
An eye-opening version of this is a friend of mine has twin girls. Both have the same parents, took all the same classes with the same teachers, neither got more access to something that the other couldn't but one dramatically better at school, has a higher measured iq (not just a couple of points) and just seems "sharper" when you deal with her than the other. She just somehow seems to pick up a lot of things quicker than the other. Otherwise they are both basically identical when it comes to sports and the sorts of things they are in to. They both got the same "nurture" but "nature" had something to do with it somewhere in the mix that made them pretty different.
- deleted 3y ago
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- nightski 3y ago
  I have a sibling very close in age and in my experience just coming from the same home and parents doesn't mean a whole lot, siblings can have wildly different experiences and be treated by the adults around them quite different. Not to mention there are forces which make you want to differentiate from your sibling and intentionally be different. I don't think that anecdote is nearly informative enough to make any conclusions.
  - mhuffman 3y ago
    >siblings can have wildly different experiences and be treated by the adults around them quite different. Not to mention there are forces which make you want to differentiate from your sibling and intentionally be different. That's true, but is that due to all the adults and "forces" around them conspiring to treat them different, or is it due to them behaving in a way that elicits certain responses? Surely some of each, no? So then, nature may have a way of manipulating nurture in a sense.
- saberience 3y ago
  Twins can have dramatically different experiences in life, i.e. "nurture" and the experiences you are exposed to you end up meaning that while your genetics are the same, the phenotype which is expressed is ultimately quite different. For example, one twin could be being badly bullied and hiding it, hurting their confidence and also damaging brain development due to high levels of stress hormones.
  - ahazred8ta 3y ago
    Also, there are cases where one identical twin had low birth weight due to a placenta problem, and grew up with developmental delays. Some differences really are congenital.
- naasking 3y ago
  > An eye-opening version of this is a friend of mine has twin girls Fraternal or identical?

mhuffman 3y ago

An eye-opening version of this is a friend of mine has twin girls. Both have the same parents, took all the same classes with the same teachers, neither got more access to something that the other couldn't but one dramatically better at school, has a higher measured iq (not just a couple of points) and just seems "sharper" when you deal with her than the other. She just somehow seems to pick up a lot of things quicker than the other. Otherwise they are both basically identical when it comes to sports and the sorts of things they are in to. They both got the same "nurture" but "nature" had something to do with it somewhere in the mix that made them pretty different.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nightski 3y ago
I have a sibling very close in age and in my experience just coming from the same home and parents doesn't mean a whole lot, siblings can have wildly different experiences and be treated by the adults around them quite different. Not to mention there are forces which make you want to differentiate from your sibling and intentionally be different. I don't think that anecdote is nearly informative enough to make any conclusions.
- mhuffman 3y ago
  >siblings can have wildly different experiences and be treated by the adults around them quite different. Not to mention there are forces which make you want to differentiate from your sibling and intentionally be different. That's true, but is that due to all the adults and "forces" around them conspiring to treat them different, or is it due to them behaving in a way that elicits certain responses? Surely some of each, no? So then, nature may have a way of manipulating nurture in a sense.
saberience 3y ago
Twins can have dramatically different experiences in life, i.e. "nurture" and the experiences you are exposed to you end up meaning that while your genetics are the same, the phenotype which is expressed is ultimately quite different. For example, one twin could be being badly bullied and hiding it, hurting their confidence and also damaging brain development due to high levels of stress hormones.
- ahazred8ta 3y ago
  Also, there are cases where one identical twin had low birth weight due to a placenta problem, and grew up with developmental delays. Some differences really are congenital.
naasking 3y ago
> An eye-opening version of this is a friend of mine has twin girls Fraternal or identical?