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Real headline: 400M machines have unpatchable hardware bugs caused by Intel's incompetence that have to be destroyed/removed from prod before the end of their i

Real headline: 400M machines have unpatchable hardware bugs caused by Intel's incompetence that have to be destroyed/removed from prod before the end of their intended lifespan; Microsoft considers it a liability to keep those machines in use.

AussieWog93 3y ago
There are patches that work around it (albeit with a performance cost), and new hardware bugs that will be discovered in future. There's absolutely no reason why the company that still maintains backwards compatibility for Windows 9x software can't support hardware from 2015.
- porridgeraisin 3y ago
  This. Spectre and meltdown, while academically intriguing, don't really matter in practice for consumer devices. Every kernel I have booted has had mitigations=off.
- throw101010 3y ago
  Especially considering the mount of electronic waste that 400M of PCs represents. I think this should be one argument authorities should use against Microsoft when it makes all this hardware obsolete with a software update. If there are software workarounds that can prolong the use of that hardware, even at the cost of performance, they should be liable (and maybe subsidized) to implement them.
- ysleepy 3y ago
  That's a red herring. Win11 supports cpus with lots of bugs. Imagine what the errata document for the Snapdragon CPUs looks like. Afaik it's mostly about TPM 2.0 and virtualization support. If people are happy or stuck with their fully working machines, it should not be up to Microsoft to arbitrarily turn them into e-waste.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    What’s the basis for requiring Microsoft to either/both: support them in Win11 or continue Win10 support beyond the timeline they published ages ago? I do hope they do offer a practical path here, but I disagree that they should be able to be forced to do so. Users who are happy with those machines can continue to use them as-agreed.
    - alpaca128 3y ago
      They don't have to keep supporting Windows 10 but they knowingly decided to cut support for 400M devices because of some arbitrary hardware features, and that's unreasonable imho.
bogantech 3y ago
Is there somewhere I can read about these bugs?
- extragood 3y ago
  I'm far from an expert, but I'm pretty sure they're referring to Spectre and Meltdown exploits: https://meltdownattack.com/ https://meltdownattack.com/
vasdae 3y ago
I had a 4790K which was vulnerable to basically everything and while I'm sure the patches had a noticeable impact in benchmarks I couldn't notice much during regular use. So yes, I blame Microsoft.
RetroTechie 3y ago
A linked article from El Reg (2021) also mentions a TPM 2.0 module as required: https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/28/microsoft_windows_11_insider_preview_released/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/28/microsoft_windows_11_... So there may be a good # of systems lacking that but otherwise fully functional. CPU bugs or vulnerabilities hardly ever prevent running a newer OS. Never mind that those may have been patched or mitigated in the meantime by BIOS or microcode updates. So imho this is just forced upgrading (as usual). "Buy new PC, get new OS". Hopefully this crap drives more users to Linux or *BSD.
pxmpxm 3y ago
Yet those 400m machines have been happily running this entire time?

AussieWog93 3y ago

There are patches that work around it (albeit with a performance cost), and new hardware bugs that will be discovered in future. There's absolutely no reason why the company that still maintains backwards compatibility for Windows 9x software can't support hardware from 2015.

porridgeraisin 3y ago
This. Spectre and meltdown, while academically intriguing, don't really matter in practice for consumer devices. Every kernel I have booted has had mitigations=off.
throw101010 3y ago
Especially considering the mount of electronic waste that 400M of PCs represents. I think this should be one argument authorities should use against Microsoft when it makes all this hardware obsolete with a software update. If there are software workarounds that can prolong the use of that hardware, even at the cost of performance, they should be liable (and maybe subsidized) to implement them.
ysleepy 3y ago
That's a red herring. Win11 supports cpus with lots of bugs. Imagine what the errata document for the Snapdragon CPUs looks like. Afaik it's mostly about TPM 2.0 and virtualization support. If people are happy or stuck with their fully working machines, it should not be up to Microsoft to arbitrarily turn them into e-waste.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  What’s the basis for requiring Microsoft to either/both: support them in Win11 or continue Win10 support beyond the timeline they published ages ago? I do hope they do offer a practical path here, but I disagree that they should be able to be forced to do so. Users who are happy with those machines can continue to use them as-agreed.
  - alpaca128 3y ago
    They don't have to keep supporting Windows 10 but they knowingly decided to cut support for 400M devices because of some arbitrary hardware features, and that's unreasonable imho.

bogantech 3y ago

Is there somewhere I can read about these bugs?

extragood 3y ago
I'm far from an expert, but I'm pretty sure they're referring to Spectre and Meltdown exploits: https://meltdownattack.com/ https://meltdownattack.com/

vasdae 3y ago

I had a 4790K which was vulnerable to basically everything and while I'm sure the patches had a noticeable impact in benchmarks I couldn't notice much during regular use. So yes, I blame Microsoft.

RetroTechie 3y ago

A linked article from El Reg (2021) also mentions a TPM 2.0 module as required: https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/28/microsoft_windows_11_insider_preview_released/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/28/microsoft_windows_11_... So there may be a good # of systems lacking that but otherwise fully functional. CPU bugs or vulnerabilities hardly ever prevent running a newer OS. Never mind that those may have been patched or mitigated in the meantime by BIOS or microcode updates. So imho this is just forced upgrading (as usual). "Buy new PC, get new OS". Hopefully this crap drives more users to Linux or *BSD.

pxmpxm 3y ago

Yet those 400m machines have been happily running this entire time?