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Take control over all water sources, electricity and disconnect it, ask people to leave their house without even enough food and destroy whatever they have gain

Take control over all water sources, electricity and disconnect it, ask people to leave their house without even enough food and destroy whatever they have gained during the life time. And still bomb them claiming that location they moved has military targets. https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/8/27/photos-palestinians-still-struggle-to-get-enough-water https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/8/27/photos-palestini... (pre Oct 7)

YZF 3y ago
"Al Jazeera is a Qatari state-owned Arabic-language news television network" Excuse me if I'm not going to take that as a source. Israel only provided some fraction of water and electricity to Gaza and is under no obligation to keep providing that in a state of war. Do you have other examples of countries at war when one side provides the other with water and electricity? Look- you're right that Israel has asked people to leave everything behind and move. War sucks. I can't say I don't sympathize with those people, I do. You seem to have some emotional connection to this situation and I certainly do. I don't have any solutions unfortunately. Israelis have been pushed to the corner right now.
- bhouston 3y ago
  YZF wrote: > Al Jazeera is a Qatari state-owned Arabic-language news television network" You don't have to. Amnesty has written about water in Israel-Palestinian as well, here is a report: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occu... > Israel only provided some fraction of water and electricity to Gaza and is under no obligation to keep providing that in a state of war. Israel is actually the one who forced Egypt to not deliver aid for 2 weeks and is limiting it now to just 15 to 20 trucks a day: "Israel imposed a total two-week blockade on the Palestinian territory, [...], on October 7." Then starting on October 20th or so "Israel has only agreed to allow the delivery of drinking water, food, medicine and other medical supplies. Israeli security forces are checking the contents of the trucks in a transit zone [in Egypt]." https://www.dw.com/en/gaza-how-much-humanitarian-aid-is-getting-through/a-67203929 https://www.dw.com/en/gaza-how-much-humanitarian-aid-is-gett... Both the UN and WHO say that the aid is not enough: "There are families that are unreachable and are probably starving to death," said Abeer Etefa, senior communications officer for the WFP in Egypt. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/gaza-aid-world-food-programme-1.7006313 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/gaza-aid-world-food-prog... HRW considers it a war crime and outright says it: "Israel has also engaged in the collective punishment of Gaza’s population through cutting off food, water, electricity, and fuel. This is a war crime, as is willfully blocking humanitarian relief from reaching civilians in need." https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/27/how-does-international-humanitarian-law-apply-israel-and-gaza https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/27/how-does-international-h...
  - YZF 3y ago
    How can Israel force Egypt to do anything? There's a border- on one side Egypt and on the other side Gaza? Israel's not there. What is true is that Israel's agreement is e.g. needed not to bomb that aid so likely that's some of the discussion going on, which is not quite the same thing. If Egypt allowed, and the UN drove aid trucks in, Israel would not bomb the UN. So aid isn't getting in because Egypt doesn't let it in. How much water do you think the Hamas has stockpiled in their tunnels for the scenario where they have to continue fighting from there for months? Just asking. How much gas that could be used for desalination? Food? How about asking them to share a little bit with their citizens? Also please tell me why can't the foreign nationals on the Gazan side leave Gaza into Egypt? Is Israel also preventing them from leaving? All that said, the civilian population of Gaza should have access to water and should generally be protected as much as possible under the circumstances. I do not support withholding water from them.
    - bhouston 3y ago
      > How can Israel force Egypt to do anything? There's a border- on one side Egypt and on the other side Gaza? Israel's not there. What is true is that Israel's agreement is e.g. needed not to bomb that aid so likely that's some of the discussion going on, which is not quite the same thing. Israeli explicitly ordered a total blockage of Gaza: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/israel-announces-total-blockade-on-gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/israel-announces-to... > If Egypt allowed, and the UN drove aid trucks in, Israel would not bomb the UN. So aid isn't getting in because Egypt doesn't let it in. Are You sure? Israel repeated bombed the Rafah crossing this month as a warning to keep this blockage in place: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/10/alarm-as-israel-again-hits-rafah-border-crossing-between-gaza-and-egypt https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/10/alarm-as-israel-ag... Israel only relented when Biden said to let aid in - that is reported in this article: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-to-allow-egypt-to-deliver-limited-quantities-of-humanitarian-aid-to-gaza https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-to-allow-egypt-to-... > Also please tell me why can't the foreign nationals on the Gazan side leave Gaza into Egypt? Is Israel also preventing them from leaving? No, that is Egypt I believe. With regards to mass outflows, Egypt is worried that Israel will push the Palestinians in Gaza out and they will never return. That is problematic for Egypt for other reasons, such as Hamas's relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood. For a few foreign nationals, I am not sure the reasoning.
- tachyons 3y ago
  There is no surprise in not taking journalists as source from a side who murder journalists. But let's keep that aside - Why does Palestines are restricted from using their own water? - Why does Israely military rules apply on Palestine? - How does Palestinian citizens are responsible for the failure of Israely government of precise and targeted attack? - Why does Israely government including the prime minister dehumanising the Palestinian citizens reminding of exact strategy of Hitlar? - Why does Israely government not interested in getting their citizens back and take that opportunity for a war ? Being pushed to the corner and that is a licence to do that horrible things is a dangerous argument, similar argument is used by Hamas. Similar argument was raised by Hitler and he convinced significant part of German population that Jews are evil, and they need to be eliminated for the safety of Germany. Such arguments bring humanity back to stone age.
  - YZF 3y ago
    Are we talking about the west bank or Gaza here? - It is true that some Palestinians in the west bank are treated very badly including taking over their water wells. There's a long story or a short story there. We have a right wing government in Israel that supports right wing settlers in the west bank and is trying to kill any hope of peace with Palestinians. - Israel occupied the west bank from Jordan in 1967. The status of that land was never settled and therefore it is still considered (by Israel and the world) to be an occupied territory and is under military rule. So that's why this area is under military rule. This is international law btw. In the various peace agreements nobody wants this piece of and back. Israel did not annex it. And there's been no agreement with anyone (e.g. Palestinians) about it. - I think we're talking Gaza again. Are you asking why are Palestinians in Gaza responsible for Israel's failure to protect its citizens from them? I'm not sure how to address this seriously. - This isn't an excuse but everyone in Israel is in shock/PTSD at the moment. It's a small place and everyone is personally impacted. Calling Hamas sub-human isn't right. They're very human in the worst possible way. Somehow I don't think the analogy between the Jewish people in Europe and Hamas really holds though. I don't recall the Jewish people going around with RPGs and assault rifles and butchering Europeans. - Hamas is never going to return those hostages and the price would be unacceptable. Israel also has to be concerned about the next round of attacks and hostages. Some of Hamas's leadership today are people that were exchanged for a single Israeli hostage, Gilad Shalit, who was exchanged for 1000 Palestinians, many of which were in jail for killing Israelis. There is no scenario here unfortunately where Israel can get security and the return of the hostages. If there was there wouldn't be a war right now. And yeah, these recent events aren't exactly a win for humanity.

YZF 3y ago

"Al Jazeera is a Qatari state-owned Arabic-language news television network" Excuse me if I'm not going to take that as a source. Israel only provided some fraction of water and electricity to Gaza and is under no obligation to keep providing that in a state of war. Do you have other examples of countries at war when one side provides the other with water and electricity? Look- you're right that Israel has asked people to leave everything behind and move. War sucks. I can't say I don't sympathize with those people, I do. You seem to have some emotional connection to this situation and I certainly do. I don't have any solutions unfortunately. Israelis have been pushed to the corner right now.

bhouston 3y ago
YZF wrote: > Al Jazeera is a Qatari state-owned Arabic-language news television network" You don't have to. Amnesty has written about water in Israel-Palestinian as well, here is a report: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occu... > Israel only provided some fraction of water and electricity to Gaza and is under no obligation to keep providing that in a state of war. Israel is actually the one who forced Egypt to not deliver aid for 2 weeks and is limiting it now to just 15 to 20 trucks a day: "Israel imposed a total two-week blockade on the Palestinian territory, [...], on October 7." Then starting on October 20th or so "Israel has only agreed to allow the delivery of drinking water, food, medicine and other medical supplies. Israeli security forces are checking the contents of the trucks in a transit zone [in Egypt]." https://www.dw.com/en/gaza-how-much-humanitarian-aid-is-getting-through/a-67203929 https://www.dw.com/en/gaza-how-much-humanitarian-aid-is-gett... Both the UN and WHO say that the aid is not enough: "There are families that are unreachable and are probably starving to death," said Abeer Etefa, senior communications officer for the WFP in Egypt. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/gaza-aid-world-food-programme-1.7006313 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/gaza-aid-world-food-prog... HRW considers it a war crime and outright says it: "Israel has also engaged in the collective punishment of Gaza’s population through cutting off food, water, electricity, and fuel. This is a war crime, as is willfully blocking humanitarian relief from reaching civilians in need." https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/27/how-does-international-humanitarian-law-apply-israel-and-gaza https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/27/how-does-international-h...
- YZF 3y ago
  How can Israel force Egypt to do anything? There's a border- on one side Egypt and on the other side Gaza? Israel's not there. What is true is that Israel's agreement is e.g. needed not to bomb that aid so likely that's some of the discussion going on, which is not quite the same thing. If Egypt allowed, and the UN drove aid trucks in, Israel would not bomb the UN. So aid isn't getting in because Egypt doesn't let it in. How much water do you think the Hamas has stockpiled in their tunnels for the scenario where they have to continue fighting from there for months? Just asking. How much gas that could be used for desalination? Food? How about asking them to share a little bit with their citizens? Also please tell me why can't the foreign nationals on the Gazan side leave Gaza into Egypt? Is Israel also preventing them from leaving? All that said, the civilian population of Gaza should have access to water and should generally be protected as much as possible under the circumstances. I do not support withholding water from them.
  - bhouston 3y ago
    > How can Israel force Egypt to do anything? There's a border- on one side Egypt and on the other side Gaza? Israel's not there. What is true is that Israel's agreement is e.g. needed not to bomb that aid so likely that's some of the discussion going on, which is not quite the same thing. Israeli explicitly ordered a total blockage of Gaza: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/israel-announces-total-blockade-on-gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/israel-announces-to... > If Egypt allowed, and the UN drove aid trucks in, Israel would not bomb the UN. So aid isn't getting in because Egypt doesn't let it in. Are You sure? Israel repeated bombed the Rafah crossing this month as a warning to keep this blockage in place: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/10/alarm-as-israel-again-hits-rafah-border-crossing-between-gaza-and-egypt https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/10/alarm-as-israel-ag... Israel only relented when Biden said to let aid in - that is reported in this article: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-to-allow-egypt-to-deliver-limited-quantities-of-humanitarian-aid-to-gaza https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-to-allow-egypt-to-... > Also please tell me why can't the foreign nationals on the Gazan side leave Gaza into Egypt? Is Israel also preventing them from leaving? No, that is Egypt I believe. With regards to mass outflows, Egypt is worried that Israel will push the Palestinians in Gaza out and they will never return. That is problematic for Egypt for other reasons, such as Hamas's relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood. For a few foreign nationals, I am not sure the reasoning.
tachyons 3y ago
There is no surprise in not taking journalists as source from a side who murder journalists. But let's keep that aside - Why does Palestines are restricted from using their own water? - Why does Israely military rules apply on Palestine? - How does Palestinian citizens are responsible for the failure of Israely government of precise and targeted attack? - Why does Israely government including the prime minister dehumanising the Palestinian citizens reminding of exact strategy of Hitlar? - Why does Israely government not interested in getting their citizens back and take that opportunity for a war ? Being pushed to the corner and that is a licence to do that horrible things is a dangerous argument, similar argument is used by Hamas. Similar argument was raised by Hitler and he convinced significant part of German population that Jews are evil, and they need to be eliminated for the safety of Germany. Such arguments bring humanity back to stone age.
- YZF 3y ago
  Are we talking about the west bank or Gaza here? - It is true that some Palestinians in the west bank are treated very badly including taking over their water wells. There's a long story or a short story there. We have a right wing government in Israel that supports right wing settlers in the west bank and is trying to kill any hope of peace with Palestinians. - Israel occupied the west bank from Jordan in 1967. The status of that land was never settled and therefore it is still considered (by Israel and the world) to be an occupied territory and is under military rule. So that's why this area is under military rule. This is international law btw. In the various peace agreements nobody wants this piece of and back. Israel did not annex it. And there's been no agreement with anyone (e.g. Palestinians) about it. - I think we're talking Gaza again. Are you asking why are Palestinians in Gaza responsible for Israel's failure to protect its citizens from them? I'm not sure how to address this seriously. - This isn't an excuse but everyone in Israel is in shock/PTSD at the moment. It's a small place and everyone is personally impacted. Calling Hamas sub-human isn't right. They're very human in the worst possible way. Somehow I don't think the analogy between the Jewish people in Europe and Hamas really holds though. I don't recall the Jewish people going around with RPGs and assault rifles and butchering Europeans. - Hamas is never going to return those hostages and the price would be unacceptable. Israel also has to be concerned about the next round of attacks and hostages. Some of Hamas's leadership today are people that were exchanged for a single Israeli hostage, Gilad Shalit, who was exchanged for 1000 Palestinians, many of which were in jail for killing Israelis. There is no scenario here unfortunately where Israel can get security and the return of the hostages. If there was there wouldn't be a war right now. And yeah, these recent events aren't exactly a win for humanity.