5 ms·

Except it was just a an eyewash, people tried to move got killed on the way, people also got murdered in the so called safe areas by Israel.

YZF 3y ago
Do you have a breakdown of how many civilian casualties were in the north vs. south? And how many were killed on the way? Israel denies attacking anyone on the way. There was plenty of reporting showing people moving along the main arteries that were recommended and those look clear with no debris or any other evidence of attack. I'm aware of a single incident where it was claimed Israel attacked someone evacuating and this is still contested. Israel has never said it will not attack in the south of the Gaza strip. It just said the bulk of its operation will be in the north. It explicitly said it would go after military targets in the south as well.
- tachyons 3y ago
  Take control over all water sources, electricity and disconnect it, ask people to leave their house without even enough food and destroy whatever they have gained during the life time. And still bomb them claiming that location they moved has military targets. https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/8/27/photos-palestinians-still-struggle-to-get-enough-water https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/8/27/photos-palestini... (pre Oct 7)
  - YZF 3y ago
    "Al Jazeera is a Qatari state-owned Arabic-language news television network" Excuse me if I'm not going to take that as a source. Israel only provided some fraction of water and electricity to Gaza and is under no obligation to keep providing that in a state of war. Do you have other examples of countries at war when one side provides the other with water and electricity? Look- you're right that Israel has asked people to leave everything behind and move. War sucks. I can't say I don't sympathize with those people, I do. You seem to have some emotional connection to this situation and I certainly do. I don't have any solutions unfortunately. Israelis have been pushed to the corner right now.
    - bhouston 3y ago
      YZF wrote: > Al Jazeera is a Qatari state-owned Arabic-language news television network" You don't have to. Amnesty has written about water in Israel-Palestinian as well, here is a report: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occu... > Israel only provided some fraction of water and electricity to Gaza and is under no obligation to keep providing that in a state of war. Israel is actually the one who forced Egypt to not deliver aid for 2 weeks and is limiting it now to just 15 to 20 trucks a day: "Israel imposed a total two-week blockade on the Palestinian territory, [...], on October 7." Then starting on October 20th or so "Israel has only agreed to allow the delivery of drinking water, food, medicine and other medical supplies. Israeli security forces are checking the contents of the trucks in a transit zone [in Egypt]." https://www.dw.com/en/gaza-how-much-humanitarian-aid-is-getting-through/a-67203929 https://www.dw.com/en/gaza-how-much-humanitarian-aid-is-gett... Both the UN and WHO say that the aid is not enough: "There are families that are unreachable and are probably starving to death," said Abeer Etefa, senior communications officer for the WFP in Egypt. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/gaza-aid-world-food-programme-1.7006313 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/gaza-aid-world-food-prog... HRW considers it a war crime and outright says it: "Israel has also engaged in the collective punishment of Gaza’s population through cutting off food, water, electricity, and fuel. This is a war crime, as is willfully blocking humanitarian relief from reaching civilians in need." https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/27/how-does-international-humanitarian-law-apply-israel-and-gaza https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/27/how-does-international-h...
      - YZF 3y ago
        How can Israel force Egypt to do anything? There's a border- on one side Egypt and on the other side Gaza? Israel's not there. What is true is that Israel's agreement is e.g. needed not to bomb that aid so likely that's some of the discussion going on, which is not quite the same thing. If Egypt allowed, and the UN drove aid trucks in, Israel would not bomb the UN. So aid isn't getting in because Egypt doesn't let it in. How much water do you think the Hamas has stockpiled in their tunnels for the scenario where they have to continue fighting from there for months? Just asking. How much gas that could be used for desalination? Food? How about asking them to share a little bit with their citizens? Also please tell me why can't the foreign nationals on the Gazan side leave Gaza into Egypt? Is Israel also preventing them from leaving? All that said, the civilian population of Gaza should have access to water and should generally be protected as much as possible under the circumstances. I do not support withholding water from them.
- mcphage 3y ago
  > Do you have a breakdown of how many civilian casualties were in the north vs. south? And how many were killed on the way? I'm not really sure what you're asking for here. The IDF isn't there yet, so they don't know numbers killed. The Palestinians do, however Israel and the US don't believe their numbers. ...so... what is it that you expect to receive?
  - YZF 3y ago
    What is the Palestinian breakdown then? Given most of the population is now in the south if Israel was bombing indiscriminately and not doing what it said it would do (i.e. the south is relatively safer) we should see vastly larger number of casualties in the south. Is that the case?
- megous 3y ago
  > Do you have a breakdown of how many civilian casualties were in the north vs. south? And how many were killed on the way? Yes, Gaza MoH publishes the stats: https://t.me/s/MOHMediaGaza https://t.me/s/MOHMediaGaza (see the numbers in the map)
invalidname 3y ago
They were blocked by Hamas roadblocks and prevented from moving. Israel tracks mobile signals to follow population movement and tries to minimize civilian casualties. Even with the inflated death toll from the Hamas this care is evident.
YZF 3y ago
Since I'm just reading this there's an analysis of where Israel has bombed in this article: https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/28/world/israeli-ground-forces-inside-gaza-saturday-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/28/world/israeli-ground-forces-i... Which clearly demonstrates that the focus is on the northern parts of Gaza.

YZF 3y ago

Do you have a breakdown of how many civilian casualties were in the north vs. south? And how many were killed on the way? Israel denies attacking anyone on the way. There was plenty of reporting showing people moving along the main arteries that were recommended and those look clear with no debris or any other evidence of attack. I'm aware of a single incident where it was claimed Israel attacked someone evacuating and this is still contested. Israel has never said it will not attack in the south of the Gaza strip. It just said the bulk of its operation will be in the north. It explicitly said it would go after military targets in the south as well.

tachyons 3y ago
Take control over all water sources, electricity and disconnect it, ask people to leave their house without even enough food and destroy whatever they have gained during the life time. And still bomb them claiming that location they moved has military targets. https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/8/27/photos-palestinians-still-struggle-to-get-enough-water https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/8/27/photos-palestini... (pre Oct 7)
- YZF 3y ago
  "Al Jazeera is a Qatari state-owned Arabic-language news television network" Excuse me if I'm not going to take that as a source. Israel only provided some fraction of water and electricity to Gaza and is under no obligation to keep providing that in a state of war. Do you have other examples of countries at war when one side provides the other with water and electricity? Look- you're right that Israel has asked people to leave everything behind and move. War sucks. I can't say I don't sympathize with those people, I do. You seem to have some emotional connection to this situation and I certainly do. I don't have any solutions unfortunately. Israelis have been pushed to the corner right now.
  - bhouston 3y ago
    YZF wrote: > Al Jazeera is a Qatari state-owned Arabic-language news television network" You don't have to. Amnesty has written about water in Israel-Palestinian as well, here is a report: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occu... > Israel only provided some fraction of water and electricity to Gaza and is under no obligation to keep providing that in a state of war. Israel is actually the one who forced Egypt to not deliver aid for 2 weeks and is limiting it now to just 15 to 20 trucks a day: "Israel imposed a total two-week blockade on the Palestinian territory, [...], on October 7." Then starting on October 20th or so "Israel has only agreed to allow the delivery of drinking water, food, medicine and other medical supplies. Israeli security forces are checking the contents of the trucks in a transit zone [in Egypt]." https://www.dw.com/en/gaza-how-much-humanitarian-aid-is-getting-through/a-67203929 https://www.dw.com/en/gaza-how-much-humanitarian-aid-is-gett... Both the UN and WHO say that the aid is not enough: "There are families that are unreachable and are probably starving to death," said Abeer Etefa, senior communications officer for the WFP in Egypt. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/gaza-aid-world-food-programme-1.7006313 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/gaza-aid-world-food-prog... HRW considers it a war crime and outright says it: "Israel has also engaged in the collective punishment of Gaza’s population through cutting off food, water, electricity, and fuel. This is a war crime, as is willfully blocking humanitarian relief from reaching civilians in need." https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/27/how-does-international-humanitarian-law-apply-israel-and-gaza https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/27/how-does-international-h...
    - YZF 3y ago
      How can Israel force Egypt to do anything? There's a border- on one side Egypt and on the other side Gaza? Israel's not there. What is true is that Israel's agreement is e.g. needed not to bomb that aid so likely that's some of the discussion going on, which is not quite the same thing. If Egypt allowed, and the UN drove aid trucks in, Israel would not bomb the UN. So aid isn't getting in because Egypt doesn't let it in. How much water do you think the Hamas has stockpiled in their tunnels for the scenario where they have to continue fighting from there for months? Just asking. How much gas that could be used for desalination? Food? How about asking them to share a little bit with their citizens? Also please tell me why can't the foreign nationals on the Gazan side leave Gaza into Egypt? Is Israel also preventing them from leaving? All that said, the civilian population of Gaza should have access to water and should generally be protected as much as possible under the circumstances. I do not support withholding water from them.
mcphage 3y ago
> Do you have a breakdown of how many civilian casualties were in the north vs. south? And how many were killed on the way? I'm not really sure what you're asking for here. The IDF isn't there yet, so they don't know numbers killed. The Palestinians do, however Israel and the US don't believe their numbers. ...so... what is it that you expect to receive?
- YZF 3y ago
  What is the Palestinian breakdown then? Given most of the population is now in the south if Israel was bombing indiscriminately and not doing what it said it would do (i.e. the south is relatively safer) we should see vastly larger number of casualties in the south. Is that the case?
megous 3y ago
> Do you have a breakdown of how many civilian casualties were in the north vs. south? And how many were killed on the way? Yes, Gaza MoH publishes the stats: https://t.me/s/MOHMediaGaza https://t.me/s/MOHMediaGaza (see the numbers in the map)

invalidname 3y ago

They were blocked by Hamas roadblocks and prevented from moving. Israel tracks mobile signals to follow population movement and tries to minimize civilian casualties. Even with the inflated death toll from the Hamas this care is evident.

YZF 3y ago

Since I'm just reading this there's an analysis of where Israel has bombed in this article: https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/28/world/israeli-ground-forces-inside-gaza-saturday-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/28/world/israeli-ground-forces-i... Which clearly demonstrates that the focus is on the northern parts of Gaza.