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> Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they still have a future. Mistakes? To be clear, before I continue further: Hamas is a terror
by FireBeyond 3y ago
> Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they still have a future.
Mistakes?
To be clear, before I continue further: Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hamas also has a lot of support within Palestine.
Now then, scenario 1) how, realistically, do you propose that the regular non-Hamas supporting Palestinian works to eradicate Hamas? Hamas have arms. (Let's not also forget how hard right Israeli leaders also supported Hamas, because a moderate Palestine is not really a true goal of theirs) Israel makes sure that Palestinians do not get access to weapons in general (i.e. Hamas obtains them by smuggling), 2) how do you prevent legions of new Hamas supporters being 'born' every day?
By 2, I mean, if you as a child grow up in the Gaza strip, regularly watching Merkava Israeli tanks cruising up and down your streets, often accompanied by bulldozers demolishing the homes of your friends, how are you likely to react?
Perhaps you pick up a rock and throw it at the tank. Oops. The IDF has on many occasions responded to children, throwing stones and rocks at main battle tanks, with live ammunition.
Good way to foster resentment, that. And maybe you don't support Hamas yet, but you hear of another rocket attack. The Iron Dome takes care of it, but Israel doesn't care - they turn off electricity to the entire strip for a few days in punishment. Not just your home, but your school, your hospital. Or they turn off the internet. Or phone. A few times, they even turn off fresh water.
Maybe now you start thinking you don't agree with Hamas' methods, but they're fighting for your right to survive, something the Israelis don't seem to care overly about, given their attitude to collateral damage.
Any other country on the planet responds like this, these things are considered war crimes. But when it is Israel? Not so much.
Edited to update reference to the tank type per reply.
- mcpackieh 3y agoFYI, most of what you say is true but the IDF uses the domestic Merkava, not Abrams. They have a similar "modern western MBT" aesthetic, but they're not related.
- FireBeyond 3y agoThank you, I updated it.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago> how do you prevent legions of new Hamas supporters being 'born' every day? Fully open the border with Egypt and provide documents usable internationally. Then many educated Gazans would happily leave for better opportunities elsewhere. It would make a dent large enough in Gazans’ demographics that Hamas would not longer be able to extract the same level of material support from the civilian population and camouflage its operations using that population.
- FireBeyond 3y agoHow much leverage do Palestinians have in making that happen? Not a whole lot. That's the main issue.
- TheChaplain 3y ago> Fully open the border with Egypt Israel haven't closed the border, Egypt did.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- junofan 3y agoI think polling shows majority just want to leave Gaza. I mean half of Gaza is unemployed and Hamas pays. Hamas also provides social services. The only thing that separates Hamas from a fringe radical group is money and a plan to use it to leave Gaza.
- raindear 3y agoIsrael withdrew from Gaza in 2005. There have not been tanks there since.
- FireBeyond 3y agoTheir navy in the Port of Gaza where they've been since 2007 would beg to differ. The Israeli army has regularly been in Gaza, including but not limited to 2019, and 2021 (where the IDF had to discipline soldiers for unauthorized attacks). There may not be a permanent presence there, but nonetheless.
- HDThoreaun 3y agoThere's a difference between what I would want to do and what I should do. Would I want to fight back against my oppressors? Obviously. But here's the reality, Israel is not going anywhere. The current borders are not going anywhere. Objectively, the Palestinians best option is doing everything they can to reach a peace agreement that kicks all the settlers out of the west bank and gives them actual sovereignty. It's not easy to look past the wrongs they've experienced, but it is clearly what's best for them and especially their children. Continuing to fight will eventually lead to an actual genocide or trail of tears situation when Israel decides they've had enough of living in fear of terrorism, international relations be damned.