6 ms·

Hopefully news crews brought their satellite broadcasting equipment. It's important for the world not be blocked off from seeing what's going on regardless of w

Hopefully news crews brought their satellite broadcasting equipment. It's important for the world not be blocked off from seeing what's going on regardless of which side you support.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bhouston 3y ago
After the horrendous Hamas attacks of October 7 a portion of the Israeli public sort of lost it and have outright called for retribution. I worry that this indiscriminate bombing campaign combined with a near complete blockade of food, electricity, water of the last two weeks is reflective of that. Now with a lack of communication, I worry about Palestinians. You can never be sure what will happen, but the ingredients for something really bad are all here.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  > You can never be sure what will happen, but the ingredients for something really bad are all here. Something really bad has been happening there for the last decades, but it's so messed up and mixed up in past mistakes, revenge and religion that there is no more ability to reason with either side. What really galls me is that we were so close to finally solving this and then Rabin was murdered (by his own side, go figure) and it all went to pieces.
  - edanm 3y ago
    > and then Rabin was murdered (by his own side, go figure) I don't think you can really call the lunatic who killed Rabin (or worse, the lunatics that urged him on and enabled him) part of Rabin's side.
- culi 3y ago
  > have outright called for retribution When Israel invaded Gaza in 2014 they killed 2,310 people. 70% were civilians. In return they lost only 67 soldiers. They also destroyed 7-10k homes and damaged 87k other homes. Between 2005-2008, 1,754 Palestinians and 117 Israelis have lost their lives due to the ongoing occupation. Between 2008-2023 2,329 more Palestinians and 308 more Israeli people lost their lives. The vast majority of Israeli casualties are soldiers and the vast majority of Palestinian casualties are civilian. Now in the span of just a few days Israel has killed over 7k more Palestinians. This isn't "retribution". This is an ongoing genocide. One which the UN has tried to intercede OVER and OVER and OVER again but always fails. Despite almost every single country in the UN voting on the side of Palestine there is one country that ensures Israel is never held accountable for its war crimes: the United States. Between 1954 and 2023 the US has used its Veto power to strike down 34 resolutions relating to Palestine and Israel. Resolutions that the entire rest of the world's countries supports. Resolutions that could've stopped or significantly reduced this ongoing bloodshed
  - whoknowsidont 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    White American Evangelicals are insane, they think it is their religious obligation to support Israel no matter what as a precondition for the resurrection of Jesus. White American Evangelicals are far more fanatical in their support of Israel than, for instance, American Jews. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-white-evangelicals-than-american-jews-say-god-gave-israel-to-the-jewish-people/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-whit... https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2005/04/15/american-evangelicals-and-israel/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2005/04/15/american-eva... https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/25/many-evangelicals-see-israel-hamas-war-as-part-of-a-prophecy/3d276994-7330-11ee-936d-7a16ee667359_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/25/many-evan... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/h... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      I've noticed the same here in NL, so this isn't just limited to the USA. You're either for Israel or you're an anti-semite. The possibility that you question the validity of the way Israel deals with Palestinians (notably: the settlements, which are in my opinion an outrageous violation of human rights against the original inhabitants) while at the same time not having anything in particular against Jews is something that is too subtle for quite a few people. To the point that I no longer talk about the subject with people near me because it is just depressing.
      - YZF 3y ago
        I don't think this is true in general. Many people that support Israel are critical of Israeli policies in the west bank (including the US administration). I think there's a problem when you apply different standard to Jews vs. everyone else or are parroting some narrative that has anti-semitic aspects to it. For example, I would call people contesting the right of Israel to exist, despite many generations of Israelis living in that area, despite the UN's recognition of the state of Israel, and despite the historic connection of the Jewish people to that land (and there are ofcourse many non-Jewish Israelis which people tend to overlook), anti-semitic. If someone aligns themselves with this message, I would also tend to consider them anti-semitic. I would likely agree with much of your criticism of the west bank settlements and the behaviour of the settlers there and in general that is not anti-semitic. It's not black and white- there are many lies being propagated and there is are many truths that deserve criticism. Propagating lies about jews is basically what anti-semitism is all about and it is rampant.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
hbt 3y ago
Israel is not allowing foreign / independent journalists in Gaza. From the foreign press: https://www.ifj.org/media-centre/news/detail/category/middle-east-arab-world/article/ifjblog-gazas-journalists-prepare-for-an-onslaught https://www.ifj.org/media-centre/news/detail/category/middle... If you are wondering why, here are the absurd reasons used: - lack of electricity / internet. No one heard of generators and starlink satellites? - Israel wants to prevent fake news and propaganda. This backfires as when a hospital gets bombed, we can't know who did it since there are no independent journalists on the ground. It sure doesn't help when your high officials brag about it on twitter. "Initial posts on X sent by Hananya Naftali, a digital aide to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, aroused suspicion. “Israeli Air Force struck a Hamas terrorist base inside a hospital in Gaza,” he wrote, but the post was almost immediately deleted." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-narrative-on-the-gaza-hospital-explosion https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-na... - Israel cannot guarantee the safety of journalists. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-journalists-safety-israel-military-1.7011083 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-journalists-safety-israel... Looks pretty bad when an IDF soldier shoots a journalist https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/shireen-abu-akleh-israeli-forces-kill-al-jazeera-journalist https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/shireen-abu-akleh-i... Of course, guaranteeing journalists safety doesn't seem to be an issue in conflicts like Ukraine. Israel is afraid of the international scrutiny and condemnation that would follow if the world saw the true extent of the suffering and devastation in Gaza So, better hide it.

Hopefully news crews brought their satellite broadcasting equipment. It's important for the world not be blocked off from seeing what's going on regardless of which side you support.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bhouston 3y ago

After the horrendous Hamas attacks of October 7 a portion of the Israeli public sort of lost it and have outright called for retribution. I worry that this indiscriminate bombing campaign combined with a near complete blockade of food, electricity, water of the last two weeks is reflective of that. Now with a lack of communication, I worry about Palestinians. You can never be sure what will happen, but the ingredients for something really bad are all here.

jacquesm 3y ago
> You can never be sure what will happen, but the ingredients for something really bad are all here. Something really bad has been happening there for the last decades, but it's so messed up and mixed up in past mistakes, revenge and religion that there is no more ability to reason with either side. What really galls me is that we were so close to finally solving this and then Rabin was murdered (by his own side, go figure) and it all went to pieces.
- edanm 3y ago
  > and then Rabin was murdered (by his own side, go figure) I don't think you can really call the lunatic who killed Rabin (or worse, the lunatics that urged him on and enabled him) part of Rabin's side.
culi 3y ago
> have outright called for retribution When Israel invaded Gaza in 2014 they killed 2,310 people. 70% were civilians. In return they lost only 67 soldiers. They also destroyed 7-10k homes and damaged 87k other homes. Between 2005-2008, 1,754 Palestinians and 117 Israelis have lost their lives due to the ongoing occupation. Between 2008-2023 2,329 more Palestinians and 308 more Israeli people lost their lives. The vast majority of Israeli casualties are soldiers and the vast majority of Palestinian casualties are civilian. Now in the span of just a few days Israel has killed over 7k more Palestinians. This isn't "retribution". This is an ongoing genocide. One which the UN has tried to intercede OVER and OVER and OVER again but always fails. Despite almost every single country in the UN voting on the side of Palestine there is one country that ensures Israel is never held accountable for its war crimes: the United States. Between 1954 and 2023 the US has used its Veto power to strike down 34 resolutions relating to Palestine and Israel. Resolutions that the entire rest of the world's countries supports. Resolutions that could've stopped or significantly reduced this ongoing bloodshed
- whoknowsidont 3y ago
  [flagged]
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  White American Evangelicals are insane, they think it is their religious obligation to support Israel no matter what as a precondition for the resurrection of Jesus. White American Evangelicals are far more fanatical in their support of Israel than, for instance, American Jews. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-white-evangelicals-than-american-jews-say-god-gave-israel-to-the-jewish-people/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-whit... https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2005/04/15/american-evangelicals-and-israel/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2005/04/15/american-eva... https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/25/many-evangelicals-see-israel-hamas-war-as-part-of-a-prophecy/3d276994-7330-11ee-936d-7a16ee667359_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/25/many-evan... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/h... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    I've noticed the same here in NL, so this isn't just limited to the USA. You're either for Israel or you're an anti-semite. The possibility that you question the validity of the way Israel deals with Palestinians (notably: the settlements, which are in my opinion an outrageous violation of human rights against the original inhabitants) while at the same time not having anything in particular against Jews is something that is too subtle for quite a few people. To the point that I no longer talk about the subject with people near me because it is just depressing.
    - YZF 3y ago
      I don't think this is true in general. Many people that support Israel are critical of Israeli policies in the west bank (including the US administration). I think there's a problem when you apply different standard to Jews vs. everyone else or are parroting some narrative that has anti-semitic aspects to it. For example, I would call people contesting the right of Israel to exist, despite many generations of Israelis living in that area, despite the UN's recognition of the state of Israel, and despite the historic connection of the Jewish people to that land (and there are ofcourse many non-Jewish Israelis which people tend to overlook), anti-semitic. If someone aligns themselves with this message, I would also tend to consider them anti-semitic. I would likely agree with much of your criticism of the west bank settlements and the behaviour of the settlers there and in general that is not anti-semitic. It's not black and white- there are many lies being propagated and there is are many truths that deserve criticism. Propagating lies about jews is basically what anti-semitism is all about and it is rampant.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

hbt 3y ago

Israel is not allowing foreign / independent journalists in Gaza. From the foreign press: https://www.ifj.org/media-centre/news/detail/category/middle-east-arab-world/article/ifjblog-gazas-journalists-prepare-for-an-onslaught https://www.ifj.org/media-centre/news/detail/category/middle... If you are wondering why, here are the absurd reasons used: - lack of electricity / internet. No one heard of generators and starlink satellites? - Israel wants to prevent fake news and propaganda. This backfires as when a hospital gets bombed, we can't know who did it since there are no independent journalists on the ground. It sure doesn't help when your high officials brag about it on twitter. "Initial posts on X sent by Hananya Naftali, a digital aide to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, aroused suspicion. “Israeli Air Force struck a Hamas terrorist base inside a hospital in Gaza,” he wrote, but the post was almost immediately deleted." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-narrative-on-the-gaza-hospital-explosion https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-na... - Israel cannot guarantee the safety of journalists. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-journalists-safety-israel-military-1.7011083 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-journalists-safety-israel... Looks pretty bad when an IDF soldier shoots a journalist https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/shireen-abu-akleh-israeli-forces-kill-al-jazeera-journalist https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/shireen-abu-akleh-i... Of course, guaranteeing journalists safety doesn't seem to be an issue in conflicts like Ukraine. Israel is afraid of the international scrutiny and condemnation that would follow if the world saw the true extent of the suffering and devastation in Gaza So, better hide it.