5 ms·

I have such immense disdain for Capital One and MasterCard for how they implement 3DS. I have been in Germany for 6 weeks. I have spent thousands of dollars be

by k8svet 3y ago

I have such immense disdain for Capital One and MasterCard for how they implement 3DS. I have been in Germany for 6 weeks. I have spent thousands of dollars between flights, train tickets, and hotels. Guess what I have to do every, single, time I buy a 3EUR train ticket? Receive an SMS on my American cellphone number. Their "solution" is to have a family member in the US add their number to my account, wake up in the middle of the night and relay TOTP codes to me. FOR A 3EUR TRAIN TICKET. Multiple times a day. From the same damn train company. I'm willing to pay $1000 yearly fee for a competent credit card company that sends me TOTPs over Email (just like they send me charges [but of course, not refunds/canceled-authorizations]). Or let's me use a Security Key. The funny thing is, they happily text these codes to VOIP SMS numbers, which I can (and do) route to my email anyway. It's abusrd that my Xbox account is both more secure and less annoying to use than my credit card. Again, for a 3EUR train ticket. I feel like we're slowly entering this dystopia Kafque-esk nightmare, and yet, as always, there's people in the comments here insisting this is fine, or that I deserve it. I'm going to assume the people saying "use cash" have never set foot into the real world. Yes, let me put cash into the non-existent train ticket machines, or to the non-existent train attendants. In the 3 minutes I have before my train comes.

tim333 3y ago
wise.com is pretty good for international card stuff. You send them a bit of money and they send you a card etc.
- mitthrowaway2 3y ago
  I wanted to use them, but they'd only accept payment via Plaid, that ridiculous service where I have to hand my banking password to a third party -- you know, the exact thing that we all know to never ever do. That's a nope for me, sadly.
  - orangepurple 3y ago
    That's not true at all. You can move money via ACH.
    - dboreham 3y ago
      Are you sure? My USD Wise "account" has no sort code nor account number (unlike other currency accounts I hold), so nobody can initiate an ACH transfer into it. There is a button to initiate an ACH transfer "in" but it has to come from my linked bank account. Linked with the aforementioned Plaid.
      - MisterSandman 3y ago
        I am 100% sure, I’ve been using Wise for the last year using ACH for deposits into my USD account
- smnrchrds 3y ago
  Yeah, they send verification codes via app notifications. I am so glad I got one before my international vacation this summer. Wise card worked where nothing else would.
- dboreham 3y ago
  Except the card won't work as they say it should as chip-n-pin in Europe (signature required every time and of course it doesn't work for transit). At least not if you're me. Spent hours going back and forth with their support to be finally told that I should try requesting a new card.
0x38B 3y ago
Not the same (it’s a debit card), but when Schwab locked my debit card after I tried to buy a transport pass in Poland, a quick phone call got me a human who apologized, put a travel alert on my account, and gave me $50 for the inconvenience. As for C1, they updated the app while I was in Ukraine, and it wouldn’t even let me log in; I had to use a VPN.
- k8svet 3y ago
  If Schwab would fix their account security to allow plain TOTP instead of the scam that is Symantec VIP, I would have nothing but good... well, there was the two times, yes, two times in a month that I had to spend hours on the phone telling them to stop letting people randomly transfer securities into my account without my consent. They assured me that (1) it would be illegal for me to refuse the request to take back the money and (2) that I could not block future transfers-in from happening and they could not implement a system requiring my authorization before such transfers. The clawback letter from the originating bank even pointed out that they hadn't noticed until I raised flags. I loathe American financial companies, mostly because they all seem rankly incompetent.
  - ahefner 3y ago
    Interesting. I was considering opening a second account specifically as a backup card and hedge against lockouts while travelling, and Schwab was high on my list, but it sounds like based on your experience that they are not fit for purpose.
    - k8svet 3y ago
      The way it was explained to me is that this (a glorfied Excel sheet of transfers that get executed at a certain hour of each day) is just how intra-bank securities transfers work and that I mostly got unlucky that (1) the intended recipient was at Schwab (2) whoever was doing these transfers has dyslexia and my account was a number transpose off. For the most part, their customer support has been excellent. I had an ATM in France eat a card, and so I infact have two bank accounts with them. They refund ATM fees, have never given me a hard time about international withdrawals, do support TOTP, albeit in a round-about way, send very prompt email alerts with customizable thresholds. Of all the banks I've had, I'm most happy with them. Just consider if you need access to a physical branch. Luckily, despite my whining, my needs are rather simple.
NOWHERE_ 3y ago
it’s not mastercard but your bank. there are plenty of banks which implement mastercards 3ds via app (eg N26).
- k8svet 3y ago
  And here I am trying to give Capital One some good faith. I've called them three times since I've been here and they insist that MasterCard forces them to do this. Just reaffirms my suspicions that I need to shop around. I'm traveling and putting enough money on this card to start looking at ones that actually charge a fee and have decent "rewbates", I mean "rewards". Less sarcastically, thanks for the heads up. I'd be greatful for any other hints of people that might not hate their credit card provider they want I do.
cangeroo 3y ago
Can't you open an account with Revolut?
- k8svet 3y ago
  Trust me, I'm taking notes! I've tried researching this, but "credit card company that sends TOTP over email" is not really Google-able. Revolut is on my list now, though. Thanks!
  - cangeroo 3y ago
    Welcome to 21st century! I travel with debit cards from 3 different banks for this reason. Look for banks that issue virtual cards that can be used with Apple Pay / Google Pay. But you also need ideally two physical cards, since one bank may block your physical card for "fraud" while traveling, and now you're stuck and unable to buy a train ticket. Credit cards are only necessary for car rentals, which is a major pain, but sometimes they can just make a reservation charge of 1000 EUR that they later cancel. The benefit of virtual cards is that you usually get a notification (if you have internet) that your card is blocked, and details about the transaction, which makes it easier to unblock, and understand why the transaction/card was blocked.
    - wingworks 3y ago
      Also need credit cards for some hotels, and a high limit if you plan to stay at several hotels in quick succession, as it takes a few days to weeks for a hold to be released.
      - petre 3y ago
        Why? Are they afraid of people emptying their minibar and leaving without paying after wetting their bedsheets?
        ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        theft of items and/or damage of property, yes possibly to charge for overstays/ late checkouts / parking / other fees, too
Tade0 3y ago
> Or let's me use a Security Key. In my region of the world there's currently one bank that lets you register such a device. And that apparently is some sort of ground breaking innovation.
- KirillPanov 3y ago
  Because SMS delivery exhausts location data, but dedicated TOTP devices don't.
KirillPanov 3y ago
> Yes, let me put cash into the non-existent train ticket machines, or to the non-existent train attendants Insisting on paying cash is how you prevent those machines from disappearing. That's why it's important.
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
Get a Google Voice account to accept the SMSes for you, it's free and Capital One will complain about the number but accept it. I permanently live overseas but with US bank accounts and cards, and all my cards go through cycles and phases. Sometimes they want to send SMSes for months to verify account access, then they stop. Same for transactions. Some will refuse to work on Amazon.de for months, then start working. Some physical cards will work on contactless terminals then completely stop working or become unreliable. (The workaround is to add them to Google Wallet). One interesting thing is that even when banks insist you notify them that you're OS, if you keep using your card OS they will just accept it and ignore the period you've stated as being OS.
- k8svet 3y ago
  I was one of Google Voice's first customers, then a Fi customer, they horribly mistreated, left me stranded in unknown-to-me areas with no functioning service and basically told me... not nice things. Then, told me their systems could transfer my number from Fi back to Voice. So, no, I'll go with my home-made solution, Telnyx has been amazing. They (1) manually gave me an account with a Gmail address, (2) fixed their HCaptcha-before-2FA login bug for me, (3) tracked down and blocked spammers for me multiple times now, and I'm probably the tiniest customer they have. And they're not Google.
rsync 3y ago
"I'm willing to pay $1000 yearly fee for a competent credit card company that sends me TOTPs over Email ..." Just spend a few dollars per month on an MVNO SIM card and put a 2FA MULE on your desk back home: https://kozubik.com/items/2famule/ https://kozubik.com/items/2famule/
janosdebugs 3y ago
Not sure if it works in Germany as a US citizen, but next time try walking into a bank, explaining the situation and asking for a prepaid card. (E.g. we have the Mastercard Red in Austria.) It will take some time, you'll have to show ID, but it may solve the 3 EUR annoyance.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
raverbashing 3y ago
Yeah a 3EUR charge shouldn't get "3D secure'd" especially for a recurring customer I think you can even get a prepaid card in Germany for that if the trip is long enough. You might need a mailing address for that > let me put cash into the non-existent train ticket machines, or to the non-existent train attendants That's a bit weird, I've always seen machines around
MattGaiser 3y ago
Wouldn't you pay far less for roaming fees than $1000 for the short periods you are out of the country?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
csomar 3y ago
Wells Fargo has TOTP over their App. They used to suck as an international option, but now they are my go to. They also give you a little device that generates TOTP numbers offline. Quite handy if your mobile is disconnected, you lose your number, etc...
fhaldridge7 3y ago
If you do this multiple times a day, why not buy a monthly ticket?
softveda 3y ago
This is your bank's problem. I am Australian, while roaming internationally incoming SMS is free. Next my bank sends in app notifications, not texts.
- pb7 3y ago
  Incoming international SMS is free for US carriers too. I use it all the time to receive one time codes.

by k8svet 3y ago

tim333 3y ago

wise.com is pretty good for international card stuff. You send them a bit of money and they send you a card etc.

mitthrowaway2 3y ago
I wanted to use them, but they'd only accept payment via Plaid, that ridiculous service where I have to hand my banking password to a third party -- you know, the exact thing that we all know to never ever do. That's a nope for me, sadly.
- orangepurple 3y ago
  That's not true at all. You can move money via ACH.
  - dboreham 3y ago
    Are you sure? My USD Wise "account" has no sort code nor account number (unlike other currency accounts I hold), so nobody can initiate an ACH transfer into it. There is a button to initiate an ACH transfer "in" but it has to come from my linked bank account. Linked with the aforementioned Plaid.
    - MisterSandman 3y ago
      I am 100% sure, I’ve been using Wise for the last year using ACH for deposits into my USD account
smnrchrds 3y ago
Yeah, they send verification codes via app notifications. I am so glad I got one before my international vacation this summer. Wise card worked where nothing else would.
dboreham 3y ago
Except the card won't work as they say it should as chip-n-pin in Europe (signature required every time and of course it doesn't work for transit). At least not if you're me. Spent hours going back and forth with their support to be finally told that I should try requesting a new card.

0x38B 3y ago

Not the same (it’s a debit card), but when Schwab locked my debit card after I tried to buy a transport pass in Poland, a quick phone call got me a human who apologized, put a travel alert on my account, and gave me $50 for the inconvenience. As for C1, they updated the app while I was in Ukraine, and it wouldn’t even let me log in; I had to use a VPN.

k8svet 3y ago
If Schwab would fix their account security to allow plain TOTP instead of the scam that is Symantec VIP, I would have nothing but good... well, there was the two times, yes, two times in a month that I had to spend hours on the phone telling them to stop letting people randomly transfer securities into my account without my consent. They assured me that (1) it would be illegal for me to refuse the request to take back the money and (2) that I could not block future transfers-in from happening and they could not implement a system requiring my authorization before such transfers. The clawback letter from the originating bank even pointed out that they hadn't noticed until I raised flags. I loathe American financial companies, mostly because they all seem rankly incompetent.
- ahefner 3y ago
  Interesting. I was considering opening a second account specifically as a backup card and hedge against lockouts while travelling, and Schwab was high on my list, but it sounds like based on your experience that they are not fit for purpose.
  - k8svet 3y ago
    The way it was explained to me is that this (a glorfied Excel sheet of transfers that get executed at a certain hour of each day) is just how intra-bank securities transfers work and that I mostly got unlucky that (1) the intended recipient was at Schwab (2) whoever was doing these transfers has dyslexia and my account was a number transpose off. For the most part, their customer support has been excellent. I had an ATM in France eat a card, and so I infact have two bank accounts with them. They refund ATM fees, have never given me a hard time about international withdrawals, do support TOTP, albeit in a round-about way, send very prompt email alerts with customizable thresholds. Of all the banks I've had, I'm most happy with them. Just consider if you need access to a physical branch. Luckily, despite my whining, my needs are rather simple.

NOWHERE_ 3y ago

it’s not mastercard but your bank. there are plenty of banks which implement mastercards 3ds via app (eg N26).

k8svet 3y ago
And here I am trying to give Capital One some good faith. I've called them three times since I've been here and they insist that MasterCard forces them to do this. Just reaffirms my suspicions that I need to shop around. I'm traveling and putting enough money on this card to start looking at ones that actually charge a fee and have decent "rewbates", I mean "rewards". Less sarcastically, thanks for the heads up. I'd be greatful for any other hints of people that might not hate their credit card provider they want I do.

cangeroo 3y ago

Can't you open an account with Revolut?

k8svet 3y ago
Trust me, I'm taking notes! I've tried researching this, but "credit card company that sends TOTP over email" is not really Google-able. Revolut is on my list now, though. Thanks!
- cangeroo 3y ago
  Welcome to 21st century! I travel with debit cards from 3 different banks for this reason. Look for banks that issue virtual cards that can be used with Apple Pay / Google Pay. But you also need ideally two physical cards, since one bank may block your physical card for "fraud" while traveling, and now you're stuck and unable to buy a train ticket. Credit cards are only necessary for car rentals, which is a major pain, but sometimes they can just make a reservation charge of 1000 EUR that they later cancel. The benefit of virtual cards is that you usually get a notification (if you have internet) that your card is blocked, and details about the transaction, which makes it easier to unblock, and understand why the transaction/card was blocked.
  - wingworks 3y ago
    Also need credit cards for some hotels, and a high limit if you plan to stay at several hotels in quick succession, as it takes a few days to weeks for a hold to be released.
    - petre 3y ago
      Why? Are they afraid of people emptying their minibar and leaving without paying after wetting their bedsheets?
      - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        theft of items and/or damage of property, yes possibly to charge for overstays/ late checkouts / parking / other fees, too

Tade0 3y ago

> Or let's me use a Security Key. In my region of the world there's currently one bank that lets you register such a device. And that apparently is some sort of ground breaking innovation.

KirillPanov 3y ago
Because SMS delivery exhausts location data, but dedicated TOTP devices don't.

KirillPanov 3y ago

> Yes, let me put cash into the non-existent train ticket machines, or to the non-existent train attendants Insisting on paying cash is how you prevent those machines from disappearing. That's why it's important.

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago

Get a Google Voice account to accept the SMSes for you, it's free and Capital One will complain about the number but accept it. I permanently live overseas but with US bank accounts and cards, and all my cards go through cycles and phases. Sometimes they want to send SMSes for months to verify account access, then they stop. Same for transactions. Some will refuse to work on Amazon.de for months, then start working. Some physical cards will work on contactless terminals then completely stop working or become unreliable. (The workaround is to add them to Google Wallet). One interesting thing is that even when banks insist you notify them that you're OS, if you keep using your card OS they will just accept it and ignore the period you've stated as being OS.

k8svet 3y ago
I was one of Google Voice's first customers, then a Fi customer, they horribly mistreated, left me stranded in unknown-to-me areas with no functioning service and basically told me... not nice things. Then, told me their systems could transfer my number from Fi back to Voice. So, no, I'll go with my home-made solution, Telnyx has been amazing. They (1) manually gave me an account with a Gmail address, (2) fixed their HCaptcha-before-2FA login bug for me, (3) tracked down and blocked spammers for me multiple times now, and I'm probably the tiniest customer they have. And they're not Google.

rsync 3y ago

"I'm willing to pay $1000 yearly fee for a competent credit card company that sends me TOTPs over Email ..." Just spend a few dollars per month on an MVNO SIM card and put a 2FA MULE on your desk back home: https://kozubik.com/items/2famule/ https://kozubik.com/items/2famule/

janosdebugs 3y ago

Not sure if it works in Germany as a US citizen, but next time try walking into a bank, explaining the situation and asking for a prepaid card. (E.g. we have the Mastercard Red in Austria.) It will take some time, you'll have to show ID, but it may solve the 3 EUR annoyance.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

raverbashing 3y ago

Yeah a 3EUR charge shouldn't get "3D secure'd" especially for a recurring customer I think you can even get a prepaid card in Germany for that if the trip is long enough. You might need a mailing address for that > let me put cash into the non-existent train ticket machines, or to the non-existent train attendants That's a bit weird, I've always seen machines around

MattGaiser 3y ago

Wouldn't you pay far less for roaming fees than $1000 for the short periods you are out of the country?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

csomar 3y ago

Wells Fargo has TOTP over their App. They used to suck as an international option, but now they are my go to. They also give you a little device that generates TOTP numbers offline. Quite handy if your mobile is disconnected, you lose your number, etc...

fhaldridge7 3y ago

If you do this multiple times a day, why not buy a monthly ticket?

softveda 3y ago

This is your bank's problem. I am Australian, while roaming internationally incoming SMS is free. Next my bank sends in app notifications, not texts.

pb7 3y ago
Incoming international SMS is free for US carriers too. I use it all the time to receive one time codes.