4 ms·

The article summarizes the difference between British and American college entrance system as well. When you apply for CS in Britain (and I'm talking about Oxb

The article summarizes the difference between British and American college entrance system as well. When you apply for CS in Britain (and I'm talking about Oxbridge), they care only about your experience with computers and mathematics. However, in HYPMS [1] the qualification is based on your irrelevant grades and your extracurriculars. You might be the most active guy and get a place but a poor programmer. [1] Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford

karamazov 15y ago
In the US, you don't apply to a school for CS - you just apply to the university as undergraduate. It's quite common for undergraduates to not know what they want to study as freshmen, and to change their minds over the course of university. That being said, HYPMS do want you to have good grades overall and solid extracurriculars, it's immensely helpful to be world-class in some activity; the particular activity doesn't matter as much.
- swang 15y ago
  That is not true at all schools in the US. At least not when I applied around 10 years ago. A lot of schools, especially the top tier CS programs told me that I would not be allowed to go in undeclared and then transfer into their CS program. I had to declare as a CS or I wouldn't get in. I knew some people were able to get away with not declaring and transferring in but I didn't want to risk it.
  - ericd 15y ago
    When I applied around that time, CMU was the only one I applied to that required that I declare CS, MIT didn't, Harvard didn't, and I don't think CalTech did either.
  - msbarnett 15y ago
    10 years exactly, or a bit more than that? The reason I asked is that CS enrollment changed dramatically after the .com bubble burst. When I applied to CS a little more than 10 years ago the bubble was in full swing, and only the top 1/4 of applicants to the program had a hope of getting in. Transferring in was a no-go. 2 years later enrollment had dropped so low that the quotas were gone and transferring in was easy. Application numbers, as far as I know, still haven't recovered to bubble levels.
    - swang 15y ago
      Ah interesting point. I came into my CS program the first year after most people considered the bubble burst in 2001, (also obviously when 9/11 happened). Only a few companies were "left alive" so to speak so maybe my year was the last year that they did this.
    - _delirium 15y ago
      These days Stanford, at least, has an active program trying to convince non-CS first-years to switch their major to CS!
      - tedunangst 15y ago
        It's been a few years, but when I went freshmen at Stanford weren't even allowed to have majors. When did this change? Link?
    - aidenn0 15y ago
      I tried to transfer into CS in 2004. The policies from the bubble had not yet been revised and so it wasn't possible. I received a degree in "interdisciplinary sciences" but had all the credits required for a CS degree (and only 4 credits shy of a physics minor, which was my original major).
- mathetic 15y ago
  tl;dr: My recent observation is that for US universities it is better to be jack of all trades but master of nothing than having some degree of (relative) expertise. You do not declare it officially and yes you have the flexibility to change it but every application asks you what major you want to study. Besides by nature if you are already decided and experienced on the subject it is ridiculous to me to consider another applicant. Let's consider two candidates: 1) Super social kid with strong grades in all subjects and a good debater and organized few charity projects (at least on the paper) but no real programming or above average math experience. 2) Kid with good social skills with top grades in mathematics, physics, chemistry, cs etc. but slightly lower secondary language or history grades. This kid also has a Github account with quite a few commits and is hacking for few years now. Now my recent observation is that (and not only for CS but for all other subjects too) if these two candidates declare that they want to study CS, then the first one is preferred in US and definitely the second one in Britain. Now I understand not declaring your major at the beginning and being undecided but how can one eliminates the ones who already demonstrate work and passion on their subject but accepts the ones who are undecided and have not done on any specific subject. As a result, American universities basically depend on "luck". They think the kid might be good based on generic projects, charity work and conferences. By the way this is not a personal issue. I am accepted to the school I wanted to be in at the beginning but this is an observation through my high school years for over 200-300 well suited candidates for top ranking universities.
  - karamazov 15y ago
    For top schools, the second kid would be preferred - assuming that by "slightly lower grades" you mean a 95/A- instead of a 100/A, and replace "hacking for a few years" with a medal in the International Computing Olympiad, high placement in math competitions, etc. This is a very high bar, and there are many talented programmers that don't do well in classes they don't enjoy and don't participate in competitions; unfortunately, college admissions officers don't have the expertise to look at a student's github account and judge the quality of their commits.
    - mathetic 15y ago
rmk2 15y ago
I wrote something very similar today in a response to another comment on another article..., also about the british/american divide (and it might also be about Oxbridge) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3802440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3802440 The quoted parts are actual quotes from the individual application processes, for what it's worth.

karamazov 15y ago

In the US, you don't apply to a school for CS - you just apply to the university as undergraduate. It's quite common for undergraduates to not know what they want to study as freshmen, and to change their minds over the course of university. That being said, HYPMS do want you to have good grades overall and solid extracurriculars, it's immensely helpful to be world-class in some activity; the particular activity doesn't matter as much.

swang 15y ago
That is not true at all schools in the US. At least not when I applied around 10 years ago. A lot of schools, especially the top tier CS programs told me that I would not be allowed to go in undeclared and then transfer into their CS program. I had to declare as a CS or I wouldn't get in. I knew some people were able to get away with not declaring and transferring in but I didn't want to risk it.
- ericd 15y ago
  When I applied around that time, CMU was the only one I applied to that required that I declare CS, MIT didn't, Harvard didn't, and I don't think CalTech did either.
- msbarnett 15y ago
  10 years exactly, or a bit more than that? The reason I asked is that CS enrollment changed dramatically after the .com bubble burst. When I applied to CS a little more than 10 years ago the bubble was in full swing, and only the top 1/4 of applicants to the program had a hope of getting in. Transferring in was a no-go. 2 years later enrollment had dropped so low that the quotas were gone and transferring in was easy. Application numbers, as far as I know, still haven't recovered to bubble levels.
  - swang 15y ago
    Ah interesting point. I came into my CS program the first year after most people considered the bubble burst in 2001, (also obviously when 9/11 happened). Only a few companies were "left alive" so to speak so maybe my year was the last year that they did this.
  - _delirium 15y ago
    These days Stanford, at least, has an active program trying to convince non-CS first-years to switch their major to CS!
    - tedunangst 15y ago
      It's been a few years, but when I went freshmen at Stanford weren't even allowed to have majors. When did this change? Link?
  - aidenn0 15y ago
    I tried to transfer into CS in 2004. The policies from the bubble had not yet been revised and so it wasn't possible. I received a degree in "interdisciplinary sciences" but had all the credits required for a CS degree (and only 4 credits shy of a physics minor, which was my original major).
mathetic 15y ago
tl;dr: My recent observation is that for US universities it is better to be jack of all trades but master of nothing than having some degree of (relative) expertise. You do not declare it officially and yes you have the flexibility to change it but every application asks you what major you want to study. Besides by nature if you are already decided and experienced on the subject it is ridiculous to me to consider another applicant. Let's consider two candidates: 1) Super social kid with strong grades in all subjects and a good debater and organized few charity projects (at least on the paper) but no real programming or above average math experience. 2) Kid with good social skills with top grades in mathematics, physics, chemistry, cs etc. but slightly lower secondary language or history grades. This kid also has a Github account with quite a few commits and is hacking for few years now. Now my recent observation is that (and not only for CS but for all other subjects too) if these two candidates declare that they want to study CS, then the first one is preferred in US and definitely the second one in Britain. Now I understand not declaring your major at the beginning and being undecided but how can one eliminates the ones who already demonstrate work and passion on their subject but accepts the ones who are undecided and have not done on any specific subject. As a result, American universities basically depend on "luck". They think the kid might be good based on generic projects, charity work and conferences. By the way this is not a personal issue. I am accepted to the school I wanted to be in at the beginning but this is an observation through my high school years for over 200-300 well suited candidates for top ranking universities.
- karamazov 15y ago
  For top schools, the second kid would be preferred - assuming that by "slightly lower grades" you mean a 95/A- instead of a 100/A, and replace "hacking for a few years" with a medal in the International Computing Olympiad, high placement in math competitions, etc. This is a very high bar, and there are many talented programmers that don't do well in classes they don't enjoy and don't participate in competitions; unfortunately, college admissions officers don't have the expertise to look at a student's github account and judge the quality of their commits.
  - mathetic 15y ago

rmk2 15y ago

I wrote something very similar today in a response to another comment on another article..., also about the british/american divide (and it might also be about Oxbridge) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3802440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3802440 The quoted parts are actual quotes from the individual application processes, for what it's worth.