4 ms·

I never really understood why the accessories were Lightning in the first place. They're intended to be Mac peripherals; if you can charge your Mac, you should

I never really understood why the accessories were Lightning in the first place. They're intended to be Mac peripherals; if you can charge your Mac, you should be able to juice up your accessories with the same cable. It feels like USB-C was only used for Thunderbolt, and Lightning was pushed even places where it wasn't beneficial. It also wasn't the end of the world, though. I use my Magic Trackpad plugged-in most of the time, so I just carry the Lightning cable as a dedicated connector. It's still bizarre and annoying though, the sooner they settle on USB-C the better.

astrea 3y ago
Some of their design/business decisions have always struck me as odd for a company that tries to present as unified, designer, futuristic, sleek, easy-to-use. They should have committed whole hog to Thunderbolt imo. It's honestly even more embarrassing for them to have waited this long to phase out Lightning (and that it required massive legal action). USB-C came out NINE YEARS AGO.
- Apocryphon 3y ago
  Is USB-D on the horizon at this point
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    Happily, no. USB-C refers to the physical connector, and we’re done with physical connector changes for a few years.
    - Apocryphon 3y ago
      Puns aside, is there a next generation speculative standard being designed already? A la 6G, HTTP/3, etc.
      - CharlesW 3y ago
        My guess is that USB-C/Thunderbolt ports will gradually become a niche “pro” feature, replaced on most consumer devices with UWB. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-wideband https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-wideband
    - ericmay 3y ago
      Well I think we are actually done for more than a few years. Legislation mandating USB-C will lead to stagnation there. Who is going to bother creating a new physical connector design? I say this as a fan of USB-C and Apple changing it so that we have USB-C on devices. Though I’m perplexed as to why they added HDMI and SD card slots back on the Mac instead of maintaining USB-C everywhere. That was a bit of a disappointment as now I have to hope a dongle is available and have to plan for connectivity versus USB-C everywhere. Sigh
      - zlsa 3y ago
        I completely agree - having four Thunderbolt ports was amazing, and I'm sad that one of them has become a dedicated HDMI port. I like the SD card slot, though, but even then I'd rather have four Thunderbolt ports than three Thunderbolt, HDMI, and an SD card slot.
        lxgr 3y ago
        Absolutely. The HDMI port on the 2021 models doesn’t even support 4K60 at 10 bit (HDR); the USB-C/TB/DisplayPort ports can supply much more. They could have fit two in the space of the HDMI port! At least on the 2023 models the native HDMI port can do something that’s not possible using adapters yet (i.e. output HDMI VRR, which is somewhat important if Apple really wants to make gaming on macOS a thing).
      - remedan 3y ago
        EU legislation previously mandated micro USB on phones. That didn't seem to kill innovation, we still got USB-C. The only thing it killed was every manufacturer using a different bad connector. I don't see any downsides.
        ericmay 3y ago
        Apple was an exception and this feels different to me. Everybody and everything is standardizing on USB-C. If you don’t see any potential downsides you aren’t looking hard enough. And this comes from someone who has wanted USB-C for a long time.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  Not to mention that Lightning is slow as hell, and can't even deliver the throughput that the 30-pin port could.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    The 30-pin port also only has USB 2.0 in terms of digital connections, no?
    - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
      Probably, but Apple re-used a bunch of the other pins for all kinds of signaling that's not USB. And had room left over for a proper line-level audio output... heaven forbid that they'd have that today. I still use a Lightning-to-30-pin adapter that has this audio output, and it functions correctly... in that the phone's volume setting has no effect on the level coming from the line out, so you only have the volume control on the amp to deal with.
cubefox 3y ago
It was arguably clear at least five years ago (in 2018, when the iPad Pro got it) that they would switch iPhones to USB-C eventually. And since it was clear that they would switch anyway, they should have switched immediately. I assume it was unnecessarily delayed in order to not hurt the ego of the managers who pushed Lightning in the first place. It would have looked like an admission that Lightning had been a mistake and that they should have waited for USB type C.
- bombcar 3y ago
  I suspect it had more to do with not wanting to piss off their accessory vendors as long as they could (or selling through lightning equipment).
  - cubefox 3y ago
    The cost of introducing new accessories for USB type C wasn't reduced by delaying the switch, it was just moved to a different point in time.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    Their accessory vendors were just paying Apple for a license to connect to the iPhone. Switching to USB-C probably wouldn't piss them off so much as it would enable them to target a regular serial specification (and wider market).
GeekyBear 3y ago
> I never really understood why the accessories were Lightning in the first place. Because the alternatives in 2012, when lightning was shipped, were either not reversible (USB A) or not reversible and fragile (micro USB)? The USB C connector didn't arrive until a couple of years later. Interestingly, both lightning and it's predecessor, the 30 pin connector, stuck around for about a decade.
bombcar 3y ago
Lightning predates USB-C and Mac people were much more likely to have a cable laying around for charging their iPhone that they could charge their mouse with.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  But they for sure had regular USB cables around, which still would have been better than Lightning.
  - ArchOversight 3y ago
    Define "regular USB cable". Which ends are on this regular USB cable? micro USB? mini USB? USB-B? I honestly have far more lightning cables lying around than I do mini USB or micro USB. I don't own many devices that use either micro or mini USB. Lightning also made sense because it was a solid connection, that did not wear out quickly, insertion and removal had no chance of damaging anything whereas I have had several mini and micro USB boards that I've created myself where I've had to replace the connectors over time.
    - cassianoleal 3y ago
      Not to mention that for the user, Lightning was a much superior plug. Small, very little chance to break or short a pin, and the fact that it had rounded corners meant it was always easy to get it into the slot. The various USB connectors always give me grief at the time of plugging in. Some are worse than others (micro and mini are by far the worst of the bunch), some are ok though not great (C is ok IMO).
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        Lightning just didn't have much to show for being an alternative to USB. It was license-encumbered, DRM-ridden and slow as all hell up until the very end. It was a good connector when it's alternative was Micro USB, but a baffling choice for my Magic Trackpad 2 from 2015. By now I feel like Apple realized that making USB-C iPhone-ready was easier than making the iPhone connector a serious alternative.
aPoCoMiLogin 3y ago
wait till you find out that the lightning needs to be connected to apple device/charger to fully charge trackpad/keyboard. i didn't know that, returned trackpad 2 times, because it didn't fully charge and the battery drained like in 1-2 days of use. when i found out that it needs to be "blessed by apple" source of power, i've returned all the apple peripherals that i've had, so i'm not going to participate in this stupid ass fuckery.

astrea 3y ago

Some of their design/business decisions have always struck me as odd for a company that tries to present as unified, designer, futuristic, sleek, easy-to-use. They should have committed whole hog to Thunderbolt imo. It's honestly even more embarrassing for them to have waited this long to phase out Lightning (and that it required massive legal action). USB-C came out NINE YEARS AGO.

Apocryphon 3y ago
Is USB-D on the horizon at this point
- CharlesW 3y ago
  Happily, no. USB-C refers to the physical connector, and we’re done with physical connector changes for a few years.
  - Apocryphon 3y ago
    Puns aside, is there a next generation speculative standard being designed already? A la 6G, HTTP/3, etc.
    - CharlesW 3y ago
      My guess is that USB-C/Thunderbolt ports will gradually become a niche “pro” feature, replaced on most consumer devices with UWB. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-wideband https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-wideband
  - ericmay 3y ago
    Well I think we are actually done for more than a few years. Legislation mandating USB-C will lead to stagnation there. Who is going to bother creating a new physical connector design? I say this as a fan of USB-C and Apple changing it so that we have USB-C on devices. Though I’m perplexed as to why they added HDMI and SD card slots back on the Mac instead of maintaining USB-C everywhere. That was a bit of a disappointment as now I have to hope a dongle is available and have to plan for connectivity versus USB-C everywhere. Sigh
    - zlsa 3y ago
      I completely agree - having four Thunderbolt ports was amazing, and I'm sad that one of them has become a dedicated HDMI port. I like the SD card slot, though, but even then I'd rather have four Thunderbolt ports than three Thunderbolt, HDMI, and an SD card slot.
      - lxgr 3y ago
        Absolutely. The HDMI port on the 2021 models doesn’t even support 4K60 at 10 bit (HDR); the USB-C/TB/DisplayPort ports can supply much more. They could have fit two in the space of the HDMI port! At least on the 2023 models the native HDMI port can do something that’s not possible using adapters yet (i.e. output HDMI VRR, which is somewhat important if Apple really wants to make gaming on macOS a thing).
    - remedan 3y ago
      EU legislation previously mandated micro USB on phones. That didn't seem to kill innovation, we still got USB-C. The only thing it killed was every manufacturer using a different bad connector. I don't see any downsides.
      - ericmay 3y ago
        Apple was an exception and this feels different to me. Everybody and everything is standardizing on USB-C. If you don’t see any potential downsides you aren’t looking hard enough. And this comes from someone who has wanted USB-C for a long time.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
Not to mention that Lightning is slow as hell, and can't even deliver the throughput that the 30-pin port could.
- lxgr 3y ago
  The 30-pin port also only has USB 2.0 in terms of digital connections, no?
  - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
    Probably, but Apple re-used a bunch of the other pins for all kinds of signaling that's not USB. And had room left over for a proper line-level audio output... heaven forbid that they'd have that today. I still use a Lightning-to-30-pin adapter that has this audio output, and it functions correctly... in that the phone's volume setting has no effect on the level coming from the line out, so you only have the volume control on the amp to deal with.

cubefox 3y ago

It was arguably clear at least five years ago (in 2018, when the iPad Pro got it) that they would switch iPhones to USB-C eventually. And since it was clear that they would switch anyway, they should have switched immediately. I assume it was unnecessarily delayed in order to not hurt the ego of the managers who pushed Lightning in the first place. It would have looked like an admission that Lightning had been a mistake and that they should have waited for USB type C.

bombcar 3y ago
I suspect it had more to do with not wanting to piss off their accessory vendors as long as they could (or selling through lightning equipment).
- cubefox 3y ago
  The cost of introducing new accessories for USB type C wasn't reduced by delaying the switch, it was just moved to a different point in time.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Their accessory vendors were just paying Apple for a license to connect to the iPhone. Switching to USB-C probably wouldn't piss them off so much as it would enable them to target a regular serial specification (and wider market).

GeekyBear 3y ago

> I never really understood why the accessories were Lightning in the first place. Because the alternatives in 2012, when lightning was shipped, were either not reversible (USB A) or not reversible and fragile (micro USB)? The USB C connector didn't arrive until a couple of years later. Interestingly, both lightning and it's predecessor, the 30 pin connector, stuck around for about a decade.

bombcar 3y ago

Lightning predates USB-C and Mac people were much more likely to have a cable laying around for charging their iPhone that they could charge their mouse with.

ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
But they for sure had regular USB cables around, which still would have been better than Lightning.
- ArchOversight 3y ago
  Define "regular USB cable". Which ends are on this regular USB cable? micro USB? mini USB? USB-B? I honestly have far more lightning cables lying around than I do mini USB or micro USB. I don't own many devices that use either micro or mini USB. Lightning also made sense because it was a solid connection, that did not wear out quickly, insertion and removal had no chance of damaging anything whereas I have had several mini and micro USB boards that I've created myself where I've had to replace the connectors over time.
  - cassianoleal 3y ago
    Not to mention that for the user, Lightning was a much superior plug. Small, very little chance to break or short a pin, and the fact that it had rounded corners meant it was always easy to get it into the slot. The various USB connectors always give me grief at the time of plugging in. Some are worse than others (micro and mini are by far the worst of the bunch), some are ok though not great (C is ok IMO).
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      Lightning just didn't have much to show for being an alternative to USB. It was license-encumbered, DRM-ridden and slow as all hell up until the very end. It was a good connector when it's alternative was Micro USB, but a baffling choice for my Magic Trackpad 2 from 2015. By now I feel like Apple realized that making USB-C iPhone-ready was easier than making the iPhone connector a serious alternative.

aPoCoMiLogin 3y ago

wait till you find out that the lightning needs to be connected to apple device/charger to fully charge trackpad/keyboard. i didn't know that, returned trackpad 2 times, because it didn't fully charge and the battery drained like in 1-2 days of use. when i found out that it needs to be "blessed by apple" source of power, i've returned all the apple peripherals that i've had, so i'm not going to participate in this stupid ass fuckery.