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So the most efficient interviewing process for the employer is also the nicest to candidates? What a curious coincidence. Are you sure there was no wishful thin

So the most efficient interviewing process for the employer is also the nicest to candidates? What a curious coincidence. Are you sure there was no wishful thinking involved in writing this post?

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- cousin_it 15y ago
  I agree it sounds very reasonable. But the article mentions A/B tests. Did you actually do these tests? The heroine of your story has good reasons to believe that the described interviewing process is pretty good, but why do you believe that?
  - raganwald 15y ago
    Sorry, my first reply added zero bits of information. Yes, I have absolutely managed hiring ads exactly the same way one manages selling things online, right down to split testing different ads, managing keyword buys, the usual yadda yadda. It’s tough, because there is so little signal. It’s also harsh because the best source of good candidates are personal contacts, which violate just about everything in the post. Which suggests that the post is really only about one very specific thing, managing the inbound funnel generated by ads, cereers@yourcompany.com, and so on.
    - cousin_it 15y ago
      Thanks, and sorry for asking a harsh question :-) Your recommendations are sensible. It's curious that they seem to suggest that coding ability is close to a one-dimensional measurement of the candidate. Do you think we could measure the largest principal component of coding ability with a standardized exam, like IQ? That would save everyone the hassle of interviewing, and also ensure non-discrimination as a nice bonus.
      - raganwald 15y ago
        I don’t personally think software development ability is one-dimensional, but the post was intended more as a caution against an anti-pattern than a how-to for interviewing. But since you ask about non-discrimination, this was on HN recently: http://raganwald.posterous.com/a-womans-story http://raganwald.posterous.com/a-womans-story Discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3772292 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3772292 (Warning: Heavy on the subject of Race, IQ, Reverse Discrimination, and other pet topics).
TheCowboy 15y ago
It sounds more like it is a less efficient process for finding employees, and seems to require someone sharp to find the diamonds. It just simply yields the most optimal result. Given a lack of time, or someone in HR who knows nothing about programmers, this approach may not turn out as well.
roguecoder 15y ago
Right now it's a candidate's market (unless you actually suck). The best chance companies that would like to hire me now had was seven years ago when my resume was thin and unconventional but my code was solid. Now that my background conventional (except for the lack of a related degree) they are falling all over themselves, and I am quite content in a brilliant job making more than most of them are willing to pay. I'm more skilled now, sure, but I was a good junior developer then. The fringe company that took a risk and hired me despite my resume got more than their money's worth. You are welcome to be less nice to candidates. Let us know how that goes for you.
- sounds 15y ago
  I totally agree. If I understood your comment, basically, "treating candidates with respect - especially inexperienced/unconventional candidates - allows hiring if you already know how to find great candidates" I've seen a ton of benefits to treating candidates _and_ employees well. • Many employees will prefer to stay in a job where they are treated well (despite taking a hit in lifestyle / pay) [1] • Establishing a "social contract" with your employees provides some protection against managers who might drive away high-value candidates / employees • During tough pivots (the current economic climate tends to produce this), a core of effective employees can execute while mediocre employees will flounder [1] http://freem.vmth.ucdavis.edu/~saintly/bio/portrait.html http://freem.vmth.ucdavis.edu/~saintly/bio/portrait.html
- wumpushunter 15y ago
  Would you please email me? I have a few questions for you re: your resume. My email is in my profile.

So the most efficient interviewing process for the employer is also the nicest to candidates? What a curious coincidence. Are you sure there was no wishful thinking involved in writing this post?

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

cousin_it 15y ago
I agree it sounds very reasonable. But the article mentions A/B tests. Did you actually do these tests? The heroine of your story has good reasons to believe that the described interviewing process is pretty good, but why do you believe that?
- raganwald 15y ago
  Sorry, my first reply added zero bits of information. Yes, I have absolutely managed hiring ads exactly the same way one manages selling things online, right down to split testing different ads, managing keyword buys, the usual yadda yadda. It’s tough, because there is so little signal. It’s also harsh because the best source of good candidates are personal contacts, which violate just about everything in the post. Which suggests that the post is really only about one very specific thing, managing the inbound funnel generated by ads, cereers@yourcompany.com, and so on.
  - cousin_it 15y ago
    Thanks, and sorry for asking a harsh question :-) Your recommendations are sensible. It's curious that they seem to suggest that coding ability is close to a one-dimensional measurement of the candidate. Do you think we could measure the largest principal component of coding ability with a standardized exam, like IQ? That would save everyone the hassle of interviewing, and also ensure non-discrimination as a nice bonus.
    - raganwald 15y ago
      I don’t personally think software development ability is one-dimensional, but the post was intended more as a caution against an anti-pattern than a how-to for interviewing. But since you ask about non-discrimination, this was on HN recently: http://raganwald.posterous.com/a-womans-story http://raganwald.posterous.com/a-womans-story Discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3772292 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3772292 (Warning: Heavy on the subject of Race, IQ, Reverse Discrimination, and other pet topics).

TheCowboy 15y ago

It sounds more like it is a less efficient process for finding employees, and seems to require someone sharp to find the diamonds. It just simply yields the most optimal result. Given a lack of time, or someone in HR who knows nothing about programmers, this approach may not turn out as well.

roguecoder 15y ago

Right now it's a candidate's market (unless you actually suck). The best chance companies that would like to hire me now had was seven years ago when my resume was thin and unconventional but my code was solid. Now that my background conventional (except for the lack of a related degree) they are falling all over themselves, and I am quite content in a brilliant job making more than most of them are willing to pay. I'm more skilled now, sure, but I was a good junior developer then. The fringe company that took a risk and hired me despite my resume got more than their money's worth. You are welcome to be less nice to candidates. Let us know how that goes for you.

sounds 15y ago
I totally agree. If I understood your comment, basically, "treating candidates with respect - especially inexperienced/unconventional candidates - allows hiring if you already know how to find great candidates" I've seen a ton of benefits to treating candidates _and_ employees well. • Many employees will prefer to stay in a job where they are treated well (despite taking a hit in lifestyle / pay) [1] • Establishing a "social contract" with your employees provides some protection against managers who might drive away high-value candidates / employees • During tough pivots (the current economic climate tends to produce this), a core of effective employees can execute while mediocre employees will flounder [1] http://freem.vmth.ucdavis.edu/~saintly/bio/portrait.html http://freem.vmth.ucdavis.edu/~saintly/bio/portrait.html
wumpushunter 15y ago
Would you please email me? I have a few questions for you re: your resume. My email is in my profile.