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They are removing conditions ("strings") from federal grant money and simultaneously taking a large cut to fund the university's general operations. They are n

They are removing conditions ("strings") from federal grant money and simultaneously taking a large cut to fund the university's general operations. They are not laundering general money, they are doing a very specific thing here.

stavros 3y ago
Hm, I guess I just don't know enough about how grants work to understand what's going on.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- HansHamster 3y ago
  The grant has restrictions on how the money can be used and the university takes a sizeable chunk of this (because they can). Then out of generosity and the pure kindness of their heart they might give you back a small chunk of that sum without the same restrictions.
  - johnvaluk 3y ago
    This isn't fair. Researchers put an extraordinary burden on administration in an academic institution. Research by its very nature is cutting edge and is always testing limits. "I want it now!" ignores existing streamlined processes and administration often provides value by enforcing compliance. This kind of oversight also minimizes a lot of abuse.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- vineyardmike 3y ago
  It’s not laundering money in the criminal sense, it’s just removing restrictions and contractual limitations. If I’m a grant giver, I want my money to go towards the consumables of research, not fund CapEx that can be used for someone else’s research. If I’m a lab, I want/need fancy and reusable equipment, which is excluded in the grant terms. Some of the grant money goes to “university administration” (pick your term) because the university gets a cut. The university administration pays salaries, endowments, whatever with that money. They also buy that durable equipment that was excluded in the contract from their “general fund”, washing the connection to the original grant.
  - stavros 3y ago
    Ahh I see what you mean, thanks for explaining.
  - GabeIsko 3y ago
    It's a weird chicken and egg scenario, isn't it? Grants should really be going to universities that have the equipment to do proper research. Universities rely on grants to fund their operations and lab maintenance. The whole thing just kind of gets grinned down. Additionally, there is public pressure to reduce government spending to lower taxes for private companies - who themselves are also slashing RnD budgets unless they can get a grant.
  - jancsika 3y ago
    To provide a helpful analogy: Suppose you want to get karma for a low-effort take on an engineering forum. If you say, for example, "academia is just like the mafia," the low-effort will be immediately recognized and down-voted. Alternatively, you can make an assertion that is outside of the scope of engineering. Like "this is actually money laundering." Engineers don't have the expertise to assess that, but they will happily carry on a discussion of whatever process you describe for that misnomer. Voila! Your karma has been granted. Now you just have to devote a tiny tiny amount of time and energy downstream to clarify that you weren't talking about "actually money laundering" in the sense of, you know, "general money", but rather something else entirely. In my analogy, that tiny tiny amount of time and energy is like the lab equipment that the university provides to the poor little grant recipient.
    - caddemon 3y ago
      It's funny that you use "academia is like the mafia" as an example that we are supposed to find outrageous. The labor structure of academia has a number of similarities with how gangs operate: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2013/12/11/how-academia-resembles-a-drug-gang/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2013/12/11/ho...
      - ModernMech 3y ago
- burnished 3y ago
  I'm not an expert so a pinch of salt is warranted but: When you give some one money with legally recognized conditions then the organization has to honor those conditions. e.g donate money to a charity and tell them that it is to be used purchasing pens then that is all that money can be used for. So if I understand correctly the 'scheme' here is that Lab A applies for and receives a grant that has stipulation X. As part of this process a portion of that grant goes to the hosting university without that stipulation. The university is free to spend that money however they wish, including providing some funds to Lab A for things that they really need but were not provided for under the grant.

stavros 3y ago

Hm, I guess I just don't know enough about how grants work to understand what's going on.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
HansHamster 3y ago
The grant has restrictions on how the money can be used and the university takes a sizeable chunk of this (because they can). Then out of generosity and the pure kindness of their heart they might give you back a small chunk of that sum without the same restrictions.
- johnvaluk 3y ago
  This isn't fair. Researchers put an extraordinary burden on administration in an academic institution. Research by its very nature is cutting edge and is always testing limits. "I want it now!" ignores existing streamlined processes and administration often provides value by enforcing compliance. This kind of oversight also minimizes a lot of abuse.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
vineyardmike 3y ago
It’s not laundering money in the criminal sense, it’s just removing restrictions and contractual limitations. If I’m a grant giver, I want my money to go towards the consumables of research, not fund CapEx that can be used for someone else’s research. If I’m a lab, I want/need fancy and reusable equipment, which is excluded in the grant terms. Some of the grant money goes to “university administration” (pick your term) because the university gets a cut. The university administration pays salaries, endowments, whatever with that money. They also buy that durable equipment that was excluded in the contract from their “general fund”, washing the connection to the original grant.
- stavros 3y ago
  Ahh I see what you mean, thanks for explaining.
- GabeIsko 3y ago
  It's a weird chicken and egg scenario, isn't it? Grants should really be going to universities that have the equipment to do proper research. Universities rely on grants to fund their operations and lab maintenance. The whole thing just kind of gets grinned down. Additionally, there is public pressure to reduce government spending to lower taxes for private companies - who themselves are also slashing RnD budgets unless they can get a grant.
- jancsika 3y ago
  To provide a helpful analogy: Suppose you want to get karma for a low-effort take on an engineering forum. If you say, for example, "academia is just like the mafia," the low-effort will be immediately recognized and down-voted. Alternatively, you can make an assertion that is outside of the scope of engineering. Like "this is actually money laundering." Engineers don't have the expertise to assess that, but they will happily carry on a discussion of whatever process you describe for that misnomer. Voila! Your karma has been granted. Now you just have to devote a tiny tiny amount of time and energy downstream to clarify that you weren't talking about "actually money laundering" in the sense of, you know, "general money", but rather something else entirely. In my analogy, that tiny tiny amount of time and energy is like the lab equipment that the university provides to the poor little grant recipient.
  - caddemon 3y ago
    It's funny that you use "academia is like the mafia" as an example that we are supposed to find outrageous. The labor structure of academia has a number of similarities with how gangs operate: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2013/12/11/how-academia-resembles-a-drug-gang/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2013/12/11/ho...
    - ModernMech 3y ago
burnished 3y ago
I'm not an expert so a pinch of salt is warranted but: When you give some one money with legally recognized conditions then the organization has to honor those conditions. e.g donate money to a charity and tell them that it is to be used purchasing pens then that is all that money can be used for. So if I understand correctly the 'scheme' here is that Lab A applies for and receives a grant that has stipulation X. As part of this process a portion of that grant goes to the hosting university without that stipulation. The university is free to spend that money however they wish, including providing some funds to Lab A for things that they really need but were not provided for under the grant.