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Every time diagramming comes up in this context, I want to ask the question: >What does an algorithm look like? Why isn't it possible to represent a program v

Every time diagramming comes up in this context, I want to ask the question: >What does an algorithm look like? Why isn't it possible to represent a program visually? Why do complex efforts along these lines either evolve to: https://blueprintsfromhell.tumblr.com/ https://blueprintsfromhell.tumblr.com/ or https://scriptsofanotherdimension.tumblr.com/ https://scriptsofanotherdimension.tumblr.com/ or devolve to nothing more than labeled boxes and a wall of text not markedly more intelligible than the textual program source itself?

emmanueloga_ 3y ago
My feeling is that the problem is trying to represent the entire program space in a single diagram. I suspect the solution is to slice the representation by meaningful aspects. For instance, if you have boxes and arrows, maybe just focus in a single box, its inputs and its outputs. This is how it's done for electronics circuits, for instance: you don't need to understand everything about the internal components of, say, a 555 ic, just some model of how it works. I also think of blueprints, where projections of the 3d object are displayed together with the object.
poorlyknit 3y ago
> Why isn't it possible to represent a program visually? I'd argue that the visual representation necessarily needs to abstract from the actual code to be useful. From concrete to abstract you can choose from any number of notations, e.g. - Control Flow Graph - Data Flow Graph - Jackson Notation - State Diagram etc. etc.
- WillAdams 3y ago
  Yes, unless you're a visually oriented person like myself who is trying to do the programming visually. I use: https://github.com/derkork/openscad-graph-editor https://github.com/derkork/openscad-graph-editor to try to design woodworking projects: https://forum.makerforums.info/t/openscad-and-python-looking-to-finally-be-resolved/88171/41 https://forum.makerforums.info/t/openscad-and-python-looking... and I'd like to think that I'm managing to keep the visual appearance sufficiently expressive that it is easier to work with than a traditional textual code representation --- jury is still out on that, we'll see when I start re-purposing what I'm working on for odd/even sides, and then then doing the horizontal version of the joinery.

emmanueloga_ 3y ago

My feeling is that the problem is trying to represent the entire program space in a single diagram. I suspect the solution is to slice the representation by meaningful aspects. For instance, if you have boxes and arrows, maybe just focus in a single box, its inputs and its outputs. This is how it's done for electronics circuits, for instance: you don't need to understand everything about the internal components of, say, a 555 ic, just some model of how it works. I also think of blueprints, where projections of the 3d object are displayed together with the object.

poorlyknit 3y ago

> Why isn't it possible to represent a program visually? I'd argue that the visual representation necessarily needs to abstract from the actual code to be useful. From concrete to abstract you can choose from any number of notations, e.g. - Control Flow Graph - Data Flow Graph - Jackson Notation - State Diagram etc. etc.

WillAdams 3y ago
Yes, unless you're a visually oriented person like myself who is trying to do the programming visually. I use: https://github.com/derkork/openscad-graph-editor https://github.com/derkork/openscad-graph-editor to try to design woodworking projects: https://forum.makerforums.info/t/openscad-and-python-looking-to-finally-be-resolved/88171/41 https://forum.makerforums.info/t/openscad-and-python-looking... and I'd like to think that I'm managing to keep the visual appearance sufficiently expressive that it is easier to work with than a traditional textual code representation --- jury is still out on that, we'll see when I start re-purposing what I'm working on for odd/even sides, and then then doing the horizontal version of the joinery.