2 ms·

>False, and I still have no idea why you believe this. OK, then I guess I'll have to take your word for it and dismiss what scientists say. /s >All of those t

>False, and I still have no idea why you believe this. OK, then I guess I'll have to take your word for it and dismiss what scientists say. /s >All of those things can be electrified. Nope not even closely, you're juste delluding yourself with copium, hopes and dreams. And plus, electrical machines don't magically appear out of the sky but you need to manufacture them (often in dirty ways and processes in 3rd world countries) using materials mined from the ground with polluting processes. You want a clean planet with exclusively clean products? Then you need to assure not that your end product (the EV) is clean but also that your entire supply chain from the ore extraction to the recycling of the end-of-life product is clean, and we're incredibly far away from that with no signs that it's measurably improving. >Also a good thing that the cheapest sources of energy now is renewables. That's why India and China have been buying Russian fossil fuels like crazy since the war made them cheaper? Again, you're only talking form a privilege wealthy westerner perspective who has abundant access to renewable energy, but you clearly have no idea what kind of dirty energy powers the reest of the world.

ben_w 3y ago
> OK, then I guess I'll have to take your word for it and dismiss what scientists say. Or you could try citing them. You know who doesn't say "it's been scientifically proven that XYZ"? Scientists are who don't say that. What scientists do say is things like "Both the underlying metallicity-specific star formation rate and the metallicity dependence of compact object formation, however, remain poorly understood (Chruślinśka 2022; Chruslinska & Nelemans 2019; Chruślinśka et al. 2023; van Son et al. 2022)". Because they know how to cite sources. > your entire supply chain from the ore extraction to the recycling of the end-of-life product is clean Yes, I know, that's what I'm saying we are developing towards. You heard of metalysis? I know someone who did a PhD there about 15 years back. With enough electricity (see later point), getting metals from their ores isn't a big deal any more. https://metalysis.com/our-technology/#overview https://metalysis.com/our-technology/#overview > That's why India and China have been buying Russian fossil fuels like crazy since the war made them cheaper? No, that's geopolitics. The maximum pricing scheme that various rich western nations have promoted as a punishment for Russia was specifically chosen to be as annoying as possible to Russia, without interrupting supply. Apparently Russia is losing money on each unit they ship at these prices, but it's just close enough to break-even to stop them from deciding to save money by just closing their oil refineries. Also, Russia's non-Western export capacity is rather more limited than they'd like, so "buying like crazy" is somewhat of an overstatement. Also also, oil is useful for many things other than burning. > but you clearly have no idea what kind of dirty energy powers the reest of the world. On the contrary, I know exactly how dirty the world is. What you insist on not seeing is the rate of change. (And now I think I understand what you are: you're a status-quo bias personality, you genuinely can't see the situation changing). What is: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-source-and-country https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-sou... How fast PV in particular is changing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics#/media/File:2007-_New_solar_installations_-_annually_by_country_or_region.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics#/media... Or if you prefer, a log-scale graph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics#/media/File:Installed_solar_PV_capacity_log_graph.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics#/media... Note the exponential. 19% compound growth at the moment, and this is a historical low. Even assuming it never goes back up, 19% is enough that the 2030s will go from supplying 36% of global electricity at the start of the decade to 200% at the end. As you may be aware, 200% is more than "all of it", which means some combination of the following three things will happen: (1) we'll use more electricity, e.g. by electrifying things that aren't currently electric like cars and using metalysis instead of furnaces to turn [iron] oxides into [iron] (and etc. for each other element), and/or by powering people who don't currently get power. (2) electricity will be cheaper (3) we'll reduce the rate at which we build PV Also, that's just PV, wind is also getting cheaper and deployment is speeding up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power#/media/File:Wind_energy_generation_by_region,_OWID.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power#/media/File:Wind_en...

ben_w 3y ago

> OK, then I guess I'll have to take your word for it and dismiss what scientists say. Or you could try citing them. You know who doesn't say "it's been scientifically proven that XYZ"? Scientists are who don't say that. What scientists do say is things like "Both the underlying metallicity-specific star formation rate and the metallicity dependence of compact object formation, however, remain poorly understood (Chruślinśka 2022; Chruslinska & Nelemans 2019; Chruślinśka et al. 2023; van Son et al. 2022)". Because they know how to cite sources. > your entire supply chain from the ore extraction to the recycling of the end-of-life product is clean Yes, I know, that's what I'm saying we are developing towards. You heard of metalysis? I know someone who did a PhD there about 15 years back. With enough electricity (see later point), getting metals from their ores isn't a big deal any more. https://metalysis.com/our-technology/#overview https://metalysis.com/our-technology/#overview > That's why India and China have been buying Russian fossil fuels like crazy since the war made them cheaper? No, that's geopolitics. The maximum pricing scheme that various rich western nations have promoted as a punishment for Russia was specifically chosen to be as annoying as possible to Russia, without interrupting supply. Apparently Russia is losing money on each unit they ship at these prices, but it's just close enough to break-even to stop them from deciding to save money by just closing their oil refineries. Also, Russia's non-Western export capacity is rather more limited than they'd like, so "buying like crazy" is somewhat of an overstatement. Also also, oil is useful for many things other than burning. > but you clearly have no idea what kind of dirty energy powers the reest of the world. On the contrary, I know exactly how dirty the world is. What you insist on not seeing is the rate of change. (And now I think I understand what you are: you're a status-quo bias personality, you genuinely can't see the situation changing). What is: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-source-and-country https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-sou... How fast PV in particular is changing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics#/media/File:2007-_New_solar_installations_-_annually_by_country_or_region.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics#/media... Or if you prefer, a log-scale graph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics#/media/File:Installed_solar_PV_capacity_log_graph.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics#/media... Note the exponential. 19% compound growth at the moment, and this is a historical low. Even assuming it never goes back up, 19% is enough that the 2030s will go from supplying 36% of global electricity at the start of the decade to 200% at the end. As you may be aware, 200% is more than "all of it", which means some combination of the following three things will happen: (1) we'll use more electricity, e.g. by electrifying things that aren't currently electric like cars and using metalysis instead of furnaces to turn [iron] oxides into [iron] (and etc. for each other element), and/or by powering people who don't currently get power. (2) electricity will be cheaper (3) we'll reduce the rate at which we build PV Also, that's just PV, wind is also getting cheaper and deployment is speeding up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power#/media/File:Wind_energy_generation_by_region,_OWID.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power#/media/File:Wind_en...