7 ms·

Just a reminder Einstien who was the most revolutionary scientist since Newton was unable to secure a teaching position prior to publishing 3 nobel prize worthy

Just a reminder Einstien who was the most revolutionary scientist since Newton was unable to secure a teaching position prior to publishing 3 nobel prize worthy papers in 1 year. Why do we think academia has suddenly magically changed?

bee_rider 3y ago
Was he a good teacher?
- staunton 3y ago
  Maybe that should play a role for getting university "teaching" positions but it doesn't. Neither did it play a role for Einstein.
  - ModernMech 3y ago
    Being a good teacher absolutely plays a role in teaching positions. Source: I work in such a teaching position and have served on several search committees.
    - staunton 3y ago
      The question was about getting such a position. Do you know any case where a hiring decision was decided by somebody being thought to be bad at teaching? Or somebody being significantly better at teaching than somebody else? How does a hiring committee evaluate somebody's teaching quality? (Not necessarily the same as teaching experience)
      - bee_rider 3y ago
        Most grad students, particularly ones they are interested in staying in, end up having to do some teaching or have a teaching assistant role at some point. I’m sure it is a + on the resume. Nothing individually is a deal breaker or deal maker, everything is factored in, right?
        staunton 3y ago
        That seems consistent with my claim. Teaching experience is a "plus", no attempt is made to evaluate the quality of someone's teaching. A few CVs I've seen don't even mention teaching experience despite people having some. There definitely are deal breakers: no (high enough impact) publications would be an easy one. There is no amount of teaching quality, be it proven and famed, that would offset that in places I've seen. Staying in the same country (or even the same university) is a hard deal breaker in a lot of places...
        ModernMech 3y ago
        > There is no amount of teaching quality, be it proven and famed, that would offset that in places I've seen. Staying in the same country (or even the same university) is a hard deal breaker in a lot of places... We've absolutely hired teaching faculty without a Ph.D. (therefore lacking in publications) due to their excellent teaching ability. See my other reply about how we evaluate their ability.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - ModernMech 3y ago
        > Do you know any case where a hiring decision was decided by somebody being thought to be bad at teaching? Personally no, but I'm sure they exist. For my debarment, hiring decisions are usually unanimous or with a few salty holdouts, but overall we only hire if the vote is overwhelming. If it seems split, we hold off. > How does a hiring committee evaluate somebody's teaching quality? The way we do it, during the on-campus interview, the candidate gives a lecture of their choice in front of a class of students. We record it and observe. Students submit feedback. You can also use recommendation letters. We require at least 3.
karaterobot 3y ago
To be fair, he wrote those papers after not getting a job as a professor. He graduated in 1900, applied for teaching positions for two years after that, and then had his annus mirabilis in 1905, that's when he wrote the papers you're referring to. After that, he then applied again, and had a teaching position in 1908, then a full professorship in 1911. So, it's not that people looked at three Nobel-prize caliber discoveries, and said "you're not faculty quality, Mr. Einstein"
- Invictus0 3y ago
  > unable to secure a teaching position *prior* to publishing 3 nobel prize worthy papers in 1 year
  - karaterobot 3y ago
    Next time I apply for a job, I'll write "Someday, I'm going to publish 3 papers that change how we understand physics" and I'm sure they'll hire me. Who wouldn't?

bee_rider 3y ago

Was he a good teacher?

staunton 3y ago
Maybe that should play a role for getting university "teaching" positions but it doesn't. Neither did it play a role for Einstein.
- ModernMech 3y ago
  Being a good teacher absolutely plays a role in teaching positions. Source: I work in such a teaching position and have served on several search committees.
  - staunton 3y ago
    The question was about getting such a position. Do you know any case where a hiring decision was decided by somebody being thought to be bad at teaching? Or somebody being significantly better at teaching than somebody else? How does a hiring committee evaluate somebody's teaching quality? (Not necessarily the same as teaching experience)
    - bee_rider 3y ago
      Most grad students, particularly ones they are interested in staying in, end up having to do some teaching or have a teaching assistant role at some point. I’m sure it is a + on the resume. Nothing individually is a deal breaker or deal maker, everything is factored in, right?
      - staunton 3y ago
        That seems consistent with my claim. Teaching experience is a "plus", no attempt is made to evaluate the quality of someone's teaching. A few CVs I've seen don't even mention teaching experience despite people having some. There definitely are deal breakers: no (high enough impact) publications would be an easy one. There is no amount of teaching quality, be it proven and famed, that would offset that in places I've seen. Staying in the same country (or even the same university) is a hard deal breaker in a lot of places...
        ModernMech 3y ago
        > There is no amount of teaching quality, be it proven and famed, that would offset that in places I've seen. Staying in the same country (or even the same university) is a hard deal breaker in a lot of places... We've absolutely hired teaching faculty without a Ph.D. (therefore lacking in publications) due to their excellent teaching ability. See my other reply about how we evaluate their ability.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - ModernMech 3y ago
      > Do you know any case where a hiring decision was decided by somebody being thought to be bad at teaching? Personally no, but I'm sure they exist. For my debarment, hiring decisions are usually unanimous or with a few salty holdouts, but overall we only hire if the vote is overwhelming. If it seems split, we hold off. > How does a hiring committee evaluate somebody's teaching quality? The way we do it, during the on-campus interview, the candidate gives a lecture of their choice in front of a class of students. We record it and observe. Students submit feedback. You can also use recommendation letters. We require at least 3.

karaterobot 3y ago

To be fair, he wrote those papers after not getting a job as a professor. He graduated in 1900, applied for teaching positions for two years after that, and then had his annus mirabilis in 1905, that's when he wrote the papers you're referring to. After that, he then applied again, and had a teaching position in 1908, then a full professorship in 1911. So, it's not that people looked at three Nobel-prize caliber discoveries, and said "you're not faculty quality, Mr. Einstein"

Invictus0 3y ago
> unable to secure a teaching position *prior* to publishing 3 nobel prize worthy papers in 1 year
- karaterobot 3y ago
  Next time I apply for a job, I'll write "Someday, I'm going to publish 3 papers that change how we understand physics" and I'm sure they'll hire me. Who wouldn't?