6 ms·

> “I do hope that it causes Penn and a bunch of other institutions that fund science this way to reflect a little bit on what the chances are that some scientis

> “I do hope that it causes Penn and a bunch of other institutions that fund science this way to reflect a little bit on what the chances are that some scientists who do not get funding, and wind up leaving, end up being like Katalin Karikó,” Scales said. A brilliant woman scientist researching an uncool topic hits the trifecta of resistance to her work. It's wonderful to see her persistence vindicated but it sounds like time for a revolution in how university research is managed. The closing quote of the article is very disappointing.

wavemode 3y ago
woman, uncool topic... is the third factor of the trifecta "scientist"? or "brilliant"?
- rawgabbit 3y ago
  She was admonished for speaking in her native Hungarian. In any organization, there are the publicized metrics and rules. And then there are the hidden rules which are nothing more than office politics. Do I expect UPenn to change its behavior? I would not hold my breath. The real question is why we hold Ivy League universities on a pedestal.
  - przemub 3y ago
    Ah yeah, the allowed kind of racism. My favourite.
    - kaashif 3y ago
      I don't think requiring everyone speak the same language is racism, necessarily. If it's "speak English to include everyone in work conversation" then it's fine. If it's "don't speak Hungarian on the phone to your parents because fuck you" then no, that's bad. I have worked in environments where teammates speak in their native language (spoken by a small minority of people at the company) and it has an exclusionary effect. Once a team (perhaps unintentionally) begins to favour those with the right native language, and a critical mass of speakers is reached, it can sometimes result in mono lingual, mono cultural teams who find it hard to hire or retain other people. It really depends on the specific criticism and how it was phrased.
  - skulk 3y ago
    The real question has a real simple answer: Ivy leagues and equivalents are how the ruling class grooms its next generation. We put them on a pedestal because being part of the ruling class comes with benefits.
- hodgesrm 3y ago
  #3 factor was brilliant. According to other accounts she also speaks her mind very forthrightly. [0] [0] https://www.wsj.com/health/after-shunning-scientist-university-of-pennsylvania-celebrates-her-nobel-prize-96157321 https://www.wsj.com/health/after-shunning-scientist-universi...
bell-cot 3y ago
> ...but it sounds like time for a revolution in how university research is managed. Agreed...but it was probably time for a revolution 50 years ago. Suffice to say that those actively causing the problems are very widely, deeply, and skillfully entrenched. And willing to fight to the (metaphorical) death in defense of the current system. Vs...could you tell me how numerous, skilled, and well-armed your hoped-for revolutionary army might be?
- hodgesrm 3y ago
  Fully agree on your 50 years ago point. The crux of the matter seems to be how grants are awarded. Alzheimers Disease research is a case in point. [0] What do do about it? There should be a "crazy ideas bin" that forces a percentage of funds for big research problems to be directed to investigations of off the wall approaches. We would find out who the good revolutionaries are and could even count them.
throw_pm23 3y ago
A revolution will likely make things even worse. Once you decide on selecting a certain trait, a thousand imposters will pop up immediately, who superficially match all the criteria that you wanted to select for.
- raincom 3y ago
  This tells us that too many people chase these jobs. Maybe, time to hire as many as possible using basic income scheme.
  - StableAlkyne 3y ago
    The people who seek professorships aren't motivated by money, they're motivated by prestige and tenure. If they wanted money, they'd have gone directly into the private sector. But: there just aren't enough professorships to support the amount of PhDs we mint every year. This is causes people to go off and postdoc for years hoping somewhere will accept them. Through a combination of luck and skill, some get a job as a prof and go through the tenure gauntlet. But for most, eventually they have to give up on their dream and do something else - except post-docs are underpaid, so they start off in a worse financial position than they otherwise would. This has a domino effect, because those post-docs compete for jobs with fresh PhDs who never wanted to stay in academia anyway. The effect is compounded by universities increasingly relying on adjuncts as a way to cut costs (adjunct professors are heavily exploited, and they take the abuse because they feel like they need to boost their resume to get a tenured position). So, there are even fewer tenure track positions to go around The only way to fix it is to either reduce the number of PhDs awarded every year (not going to happen) or incentive an increase in the number of professorships at universities.
    - raincom 3y ago
      In a way, this explains why many international Ph.Ds go back to their home countries these days to join local universities. It is good for these countries.
      - 3y ago

wavemode 3y ago

woman, uncool topic... is the third factor of the trifecta "scientist"? or "brilliant"?

rawgabbit 3y ago
She was admonished for speaking in her native Hungarian. In any organization, there are the publicized metrics and rules. And then there are the hidden rules which are nothing more than office politics. Do I expect UPenn to change its behavior? I would not hold my breath. The real question is why we hold Ivy League universities on a pedestal.
- przemub 3y ago
  Ah yeah, the allowed kind of racism. My favourite.
  - kaashif 3y ago
    I don't think requiring everyone speak the same language is racism, necessarily. If it's "speak English to include everyone in work conversation" then it's fine. If it's "don't speak Hungarian on the phone to your parents because fuck you" then no, that's bad. I have worked in environments where teammates speak in their native language (spoken by a small minority of people at the company) and it has an exclusionary effect. Once a team (perhaps unintentionally) begins to favour those with the right native language, and a critical mass of speakers is reached, it can sometimes result in mono lingual, mono cultural teams who find it hard to hire or retain other people. It really depends on the specific criticism and how it was phrased.
- skulk 3y ago
  The real question has a real simple answer: Ivy leagues and equivalents are how the ruling class grooms its next generation. We put them on a pedestal because being part of the ruling class comes with benefits.
hodgesrm 3y ago
#3 factor was brilliant. According to other accounts she also speaks her mind very forthrightly. [0] [0] https://www.wsj.com/health/after-shunning-scientist-university-of-pennsylvania-celebrates-her-nobel-prize-96157321 https://www.wsj.com/health/after-shunning-scientist-universi...

bell-cot 3y ago

> ...but it sounds like time for a revolution in how university research is managed. Agreed...but it was probably time for a revolution 50 years ago. Suffice to say that those actively causing the problems are very widely, deeply, and skillfully entrenched. And willing to fight to the (metaphorical) death in defense of the current system. Vs...could you tell me how numerous, skilled, and well-armed your hoped-for revolutionary army might be?

hodgesrm 3y ago
Fully agree on your 50 years ago point. The crux of the matter seems to be how grants are awarded. Alzheimers Disease research is a case in point. [0] What do do about it? There should be a "crazy ideas bin" that forces a percentage of funds for big research problems to be directed to investigations of off the wall approaches. We would find out who the good revolutionaries are and could even count them.

throw_pm23 3y ago

A revolution will likely make things even worse. Once you decide on selecting a certain trait, a thousand imposters will pop up immediately, who superficially match all the criteria that you wanted to select for.

raincom 3y ago
This tells us that too many people chase these jobs. Maybe, time to hire as many as possible using basic income scheme.
- StableAlkyne 3y ago
  The people who seek professorships aren't motivated by money, they're motivated by prestige and tenure. If they wanted money, they'd have gone directly into the private sector. But: there just aren't enough professorships to support the amount of PhDs we mint every year. This is causes people to go off and postdoc for years hoping somewhere will accept them. Through a combination of luck and skill, some get a job as a prof and go through the tenure gauntlet. But for most, eventually they have to give up on their dream and do something else - except post-docs are underpaid, so they start off in a worse financial position than they otherwise would. This has a domino effect, because those post-docs compete for jobs with fresh PhDs who never wanted to stay in academia anyway. The effect is compounded by universities increasingly relying on adjuncts as a way to cut costs (adjunct professors are heavily exploited, and they take the abuse because they feel like they need to boost their resume to get a tenured position). So, there are even fewer tenure track positions to go around The only way to fix it is to either reduce the number of PhDs awarded every year (not going to happen) or incentive an increase in the number of professorships at universities.
  - raincom 3y ago
    In a way, this explains why many international Ph.Ds go back to their home countries these days to join local universities. It is good for these countries.
    - 3y ago