4 ms·

Seeds like grains that make up most of people's diets and the diets of most livestock? That doesn't sound great.

by goda90 3y ago

adrian_b 3y ago
Actually products like white flour or white rice have significantly less contaminants than whole grains. I do not agree with the propaganda about whole grains being healthy. Whole grains have more contaminants and more anti-nutrients, e.g. phytic acid. Whole grains would be healthier in comparison with white flour or white rice only for someone who would eat nothing else, and even then they would not be healthy enough. A healthy diet should include processed grains like white flour or white rice as a source of cheap proteins and of energy and it should also include some sources of healthy fat and many other sources for the nutrients that are necessary only in small quantities, like vitamins, minerals or proteins rich in lysine (which is insufficient in cereals). Whole-grain products have inflated prices, while a combination of e.g. white flour with various vegetables is simultaneously cheaper and healthier. Relying on whole grains to provide what is missing in white flour or white rice is completely inefficient and it also adds the risk of an excessive intake of contaminants.
- crawfordcomeaux 3y ago
  How did you come to the idea that processed foods are part of a healthy diet
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    not all processed foods are healthy, but also not all raw foods are healthy either. most of the issues with processed foods are with the ultra-processed foods, those foods that are manufactured into a food product with minimal or no cooking required. and there's the stuff like iodine or niacin fortification and pasteurization, which we know has had systemic positive effects on nutrition. there's also where exactly you draw the line for processing. fermentation is like the oldest food preservation method we have (kimchi, cheese): is that processing? the raw diet people even believe cooking of any time is processing.
    - avery17 3y ago
      Nothing is healthy, everything is just varying levels of bad for you. Its all about minimizing.
  - adrian_b 3y ago
    Any kind of food must be processed by removing the parts that are not edible or are contaminated or contain various harmful substances. This kind of processing is always good. The kind of processing that is bad either adds to food substances that are not food, e.g. conservants or colorants, or it destroys useful components of the food, like vitamins or unsaturated fatty acids, by heating or other harsh treatments. The useful part of the grains, which cannot be obtained from other sources at a similar price, are the proteins and the starch, which are needed by a human in large quantities daily. Everything else that is contained in the whole grains can be found in countless other vegetables that are better sources than the whole grains.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  that being said, whole grains do cause less glycemic spiking and are important for diabetics.
- nikkwong 3y ago
  What you're missing here is that whole grains (or whole foods in general) are biologically active with phytochemicals such as phenolic acids, flavonoids, lingans, etc, which their processed counterparts generally have less of (or none at all). These compounds get into our body and then work in many ways (many of which that we don't fully understand) to improve important markers of human health. Plant food is biologically active in ways that animal products are not, and I think people who eat exclusively meat as a source of protein are missing out on a lot of opportunity from the chemical activity of plants that has been shown to be health promoting. Whole foods do have more antinutrients but in studies I've seen most authors conclude that the benefits greatly outweigh the risks. I agree that I am concerned about the metals in whole foods though; and careful sourcing is important (and even then sometimes insufficient).
  - adrian_b 3y ago
    There are many other vegetables, from which other parts than the seeds are eaten, and which provide large amounts of biologically active phytochemicals. Seeds, like those of cereals or of legumes, are a necessary part of food because they are the only part of the plants with high content of proteins. Because of their disadvantage of also concentrating pollutants, it is preferable to use them mainly as a source of proteins and starch, which does not require the use of whole grains, and to get any desirable phytochemicals from other parts of plants. In the case of oily seeds, the extracted oils (if they are obtained by cold pressing or supercritical carbon dioxide extraction) contain most of the phytochemicals but much less of the heavy metals. For instance, cold-pressed sunflower oil is a better source of phytochemicals than raw sunflower seeds, because the latter, like cocoa, have frequently high contents of lead and cadmium. So there are ways of processing that improve the quality of the food ingredients. The kinds of processing that are bad are typically those which add undesirable substances to food, not those which remove undesirable substances from food.
  - goda90 3y ago
    I'd love to see more research on how soaking and sprouting impact contaminants and antinutrients. It's known that they reduce some antinutrients already, but an accurate map of every chemical in seeds(including the proteins we want) at each stage of sprouting would be great.
- xhrpost 3y ago
  In addition to some of the other comments here mentioning whole grain benefits, I remember doing some brief research here and seeing that processed grains like white rice or white bread tend to be inflammatory while brown rice and whole grain bread are anti-inflammatory. Not sure if that just makes this a "pick your poison" situation or what.

Seeds like grains that make up most of people's diets and the diets of most livestock? That doesn't sound great.

by goda90 3y ago

Seeds like grains that make up most of people's diets and the diets of most livestock? That doesn't sound great.

Actually products like white flour or white rice have significantly less contaminants than whole grains. I do not agree with the propaganda about whole grains being healthy. Whole grains have more contaminants and more anti-nutrients, e.g. phytic acid. Whole grains would be healthier in comparison with white flour or white rice only for someone who would eat nothing else, and even then they would not be healthy enough. A healthy diet should include processed grains like white flour or white rice as a source of cheap proteins and of energy and it should also include some sources of healthy fat and many other sources for the nutrients that are necessary only in small quantities, like vitamins, minerals or proteins rich in lysine (which is insufficient in cereals). Whole-grain products have inflated prices, while a combination of e.g. white flour with various vegetables is simultaneously cheaper and healthier. Relying on whole grains to provide what is missing in white flour or white rice is completely inefficient and it also adds the risk of an excessive intake of contaminants.

crawfordcomeaux 3y ago
How did you come to the idea that processed foods are part of a healthy diet
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  not all processed foods are healthy, but also not all raw foods are healthy either. most of the issues with processed foods are with the ultra-processed foods, those foods that are manufactured into a food product with minimal or no cooking required. and there's the stuff like iodine or niacin fortification and pasteurization, which we know has had systemic positive effects on nutrition. there's also where exactly you draw the line for processing. fermentation is like the oldest food preservation method we have (kimchi, cheese): is that processing? the raw diet people even believe cooking of any time is processing.
  - avery17 3y ago
    Nothing is healthy, everything is just varying levels of bad for you. Its all about minimizing.
- adrian_b 3y ago
  Any kind of food must be processed by removing the parts that are not edible or are contaminated or contain various harmful substances. This kind of processing is always good. The kind of processing that is bad either adds to food substances that are not food, e.g. conservants or colorants, or it destroys useful components of the food, like vitamins or unsaturated fatty acids, by heating or other harsh treatments. The useful part of the grains, which cannot be obtained from other sources at a similar price, are the proteins and the starch, which are needed by a human in large quantities daily. Everything else that is contained in the whole grains can be found in countless other vegetables that are better sources than the whole grains.
bobthepanda 3y ago
that being said, whole grains do cause less glycemic spiking and are important for diabetics.
nikkwong 3y ago
What you're missing here is that whole grains (or whole foods in general) are biologically active with phytochemicals such as phenolic acids, flavonoids, lingans, etc, which their processed counterparts generally have less of (or none at all). These compounds get into our body and then work in many ways (many of which that we don't fully understand) to improve important markers of human health. Plant food is biologically active in ways that animal products are not, and I think people who eat exclusively meat as a source of protein are missing out on a lot of opportunity from the chemical activity of plants that has been shown to be health promoting. Whole foods do have more antinutrients but in studies I've seen most authors conclude that the benefits greatly outweigh the risks. I agree that I am concerned about the metals in whole foods though; and careful sourcing is important (and even then sometimes insufficient).
- adrian_b 3y ago
  There are many other vegetables, from which other parts than the seeds are eaten, and which provide large amounts of biologically active phytochemicals. Seeds, like those of cereals or of legumes, are a necessary part of food because they are the only part of the plants with high content of proteins. Because of their disadvantage of also concentrating pollutants, it is preferable to use them mainly as a source of proteins and starch, which does not require the use of whole grains, and to get any desirable phytochemicals from other parts of plants. In the case of oily seeds, the extracted oils (if they are obtained by cold pressing or supercritical carbon dioxide extraction) contain most of the phytochemicals but much less of the heavy metals. For instance, cold-pressed sunflower oil is a better source of phytochemicals than raw sunflower seeds, because the latter, like cocoa, have frequently high contents of lead and cadmium. So there are ways of processing that improve the quality of the food ingredients. The kinds of processing that are bad are typically those which add undesirable substances to food, not those which remove undesirable substances from food.
- goda90 3y ago
  I'd love to see more research on how soaking and sprouting impact contaminants and antinutrients. It's known that they reduce some antinutrients already, but an accurate map of every chemical in seeds(including the proteins we want) at each stage of sprouting would be great.
xhrpost 3y ago
In addition to some of the other comments here mentioning whole grain benefits, I remember doing some brief research here and seeing that processed grains like white rice or white bread tend to be inflammatory while brown rice and whole grain bread are anti-inflammatory. Not sure if that just makes this a "pick your poison" situation or what.