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I wholeheartedly support digitization, having been involved in the realms of development, system administration, and everything computer-related since my early

I wholeheartedly support digitization, having been involved in the realms of development, system administration, and everything computer-related since my early days. However, what irks me is when I'm bound to use products or services from providers who fail to execute their roles properly despite being compensated for it. A recent incident at my child's school serves as a pertinent example. They transitioned from a traditional cash-based food delivery system to a new digital platform. While trying to register on this platform, I was prompted to provide an "email". I input my usual email address only to be met with an "invalid email" response. After multiple back-and-forths with both the school and the platform's support, I discovered that by "email", they actually meant a "Gmail account". For context, I've been using my own domain for my email, which ends in .international, for over a decade now—longer than my 9-year-old child has been alive. Despite this, they deemed my email domain "new". The situation reached a head when the school's principal called me, trying to understand the issue. After explaining the situation, he assured me that the problem was on my end, stating that he had consulted with other teachers and they were in agreement that "<my domain name>.international" wasn't a "real platform".

mrbadguy 3y ago
Wow, that is bonkers. Could you maybe get them actually to try sending you an email to that address and show them that, yes, you do receive the damnned thing?
- Habgdnv 3y ago
  I initially wrote a much longer comment, detailing multiple instances like these from just the past few months. But then I just deleted it because it will be too long. As for them - They will just tell "huh, he is hacker and can send fake emails from fake non-existing platforms". It's like me attempting to demonstrate my possession of a private key for an SSL certificate to someone who lacks even a basic understanding of what a "browser" is, or who has never encountered terms like HTTP or HTTPS. Another thought, more closely aligned with the original poster's point: if someone pushes to transition everything to a digital format, he must first understand what that means. For instance, if you're looking to gather email addresses, take the time to familiarize yourself with relevant RFCs. Understand that the local part of the email is determined by the user, not you. So, if I decide my email address should be "john with space here-doe!@#$%^&"@example.international, and I've set up my server to accept messages directed to this address, and given that IANA recognizes ".international" as a valid TLD, then it's a legitimate email. For clarity's sake, my actual email is of the format first.last@example.international, without any "non-standard" characters. And as a connection to the OP - they are pushing for debit/credit cards society and when they make sure that all your money are with them and you don't have a single cent on you - they just cut you because you're just 0.001% and an edge case. But that is their point of view. From your point of view its like this: At home if my card stops working i can go to my bank the very next day and get it sorted. I can walk for 15 minutes and be at my mom's place where I can eat everything for free. The next day you are in another country where you don't know anybody and if your card stops there, they just leave you to the wolves. For them you're the edge case - 0.001%. For you - this is all your food, shelter, health. It feels a bit unfair.
  - mrbadguy 3y ago
    Yeah I agree, the push towards digitalization combined with a lack of care for "edge cases" is kind of scary. People might say, oh, it only affects 0.3% but, in the US, that's roughly a million people so hardly trivial. The problem is that it is difficult to make truly flexible software and no-one has the financial incentive to do so. Increasingly, people don't even want to invest in humans at the edge to try and work around issues. Companies like google just ignore you.
- Habgdnv 3y ago
  And just in case - I am not that weirdo that just refuses google. No - I have google account, youtube premium, etc. But my google account is with my own email and not with gmail.com. I have microsoft, twitter/X, facebook, amazon, everything that you probably have. All sites. And I was there 10 years ago when .international was introduced. I remember few sites that don't accept it in the first year or two. Then everything went smooth. And 10years later someone is creating brand new site and limit the tld in the email to 3 characters :) The last company that I remember that was having problems was Activision/Blizzard. And when I wrote to them and pointed out that they are not potato but tech company and should watch for such things it took them about 1 month to fix all their sites/account management/billing.
- PeterisP 3y ago
  I'm inclined to think that this is caused by prejudice against nonstandard TLDs which many, many services have; that it would work if the OP had their custom .com or .org domain.
SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
Well in my opinion, this is what it means to support digitisation. It means accepting that these situations will become more and more commonplace. It is simply the price you pay. In your other comment you mention that people handling email should be familiarising themselves properly with RFCs. Yeah. Maybe. Probably actually you're right. Putting aside the problem of ehether they actually _have to_ or _will_ for a second. Do you think it's reasonable that the people at your child's school will? No, of course not. And they're the ones who will choose these providers. Not you. To support digitisation is to support the tyranny of technical ignorance in every facet of our lives.
- bo1024 3y ago
  No, I think the situation is more nuanced than this. Why do the people at the school have providers who only accept gmail? Because some extremely technical people who understand exactly what they’re doing have led the web further and further into platform lock-in, and others go along with it.
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  Frankly, examples like GP's are a compelling argument for professional licensure for software developers, because "only accepting gmail addresses as valid emails" should be considered professional malpractice.
  - arp242 3y ago
    The effect will be marginal; it will just create a huge administrative bonanza, and the number of times where it will be used (i.e. software devs being "disbarred") will be few enough that it won't matter much in practice.
    - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
      The purpose of licensure is that it effectively allows the licensed individual to hold themselves hostage in a negotiation. Without licenses, Management says "add feature X", and even though you know feature X is evil personified, you look at the pros and cons of implementing it or not, and you end up with "my professional conscience" vs "getting fired". With licenses, you end up with "every future job" vs "this job" which is quite a bit more balanced in the direction of "don't add evil feature X".
pierat 3y ago
Taken to the logical conclusion, this public school (which your child is compulsed to attend)is requiring you to agree to a private company's ToS and extreme data exfiltration and arbitration clauses, so your child can be fed. Even worse yet, by refusing to get a google account, you could be tried for child abuse, since the school won't feed your child if you won't agree to google's ToS. I really hope you didn't acquiesce. And I hope you hired an attorney to fight these laughable and horrific abuses.

mrbadguy 3y ago

Wow, that is bonkers. Could you maybe get them actually to try sending you an email to that address and show them that, yes, you do receive the damnned thing?

Habgdnv 3y ago
I initially wrote a much longer comment, detailing multiple instances like these from just the past few months. But then I just deleted it because it will be too long. As for them - They will just tell "huh, he is hacker and can send fake emails from fake non-existing platforms". It's like me attempting to demonstrate my possession of a private key for an SSL certificate to someone who lacks even a basic understanding of what a "browser" is, or who has never encountered terms like HTTP or HTTPS. Another thought, more closely aligned with the original poster's point: if someone pushes to transition everything to a digital format, he must first understand what that means. For instance, if you're looking to gather email addresses, take the time to familiarize yourself with relevant RFCs. Understand that the local part of the email is determined by the user, not you. So, if I decide my email address should be "john with space here-doe!@#$%^&"@example.international, and I've set up my server to accept messages directed to this address, and given that IANA recognizes ".international" as a valid TLD, then it's a legitimate email. For clarity's sake, my actual email is of the format first.last@example.international, without any "non-standard" characters. And as a connection to the OP - they are pushing for debit/credit cards society and when they make sure that all your money are with them and you don't have a single cent on you - they just cut you because you're just 0.001% and an edge case. But that is their point of view. From your point of view its like this: At home if my card stops working i can go to my bank the very next day and get it sorted. I can walk for 15 minutes and be at my mom's place where I can eat everything for free. The next day you are in another country where you don't know anybody and if your card stops there, they just leave you to the wolves. For them you're the edge case - 0.001%. For you - this is all your food, shelter, health. It feels a bit unfair.
- mrbadguy 3y ago
  Yeah I agree, the push towards digitalization combined with a lack of care for "edge cases" is kind of scary. People might say, oh, it only affects 0.3% but, in the US, that's roughly a million people so hardly trivial. The problem is that it is difficult to make truly flexible software and no-one has the financial incentive to do so. Increasingly, people don't even want to invest in humans at the edge to try and work around issues. Companies like google just ignore you.
Habgdnv 3y ago
And just in case - I am not that weirdo that just refuses google. No - I have google account, youtube premium, etc. But my google account is with my own email and not with gmail.com. I have microsoft, twitter/X, facebook, amazon, everything that you probably have. All sites. And I was there 10 years ago when .international was introduced. I remember few sites that don't accept it in the first year or two. Then everything went smooth. And 10years later someone is creating brand new site and limit the tld in the email to 3 characters :) The last company that I remember that was having problems was Activision/Blizzard. And when I wrote to them and pointed out that they are not potato but tech company and should watch for such things it took them about 1 month to fix all their sites/account management/billing.
PeterisP 3y ago
I'm inclined to think that this is caused by prejudice against nonstandard TLDs which many, many services have; that it would work if the OP had their custom .com or .org domain.

SuperNinKenDo 3y ago

Well in my opinion, this is what it means to support digitisation. It means accepting that these situations will become more and more commonplace. It is simply the price you pay. In your other comment you mention that people handling email should be familiarising themselves properly with RFCs. Yeah. Maybe. Probably actually you're right. Putting aside the problem of ehether they actually _have to_ or _will_ for a second. Do you think it's reasonable that the people at your child's school will? No, of course not. And they're the ones who will choose these providers. Not you. To support digitisation is to support the tyranny of technical ignorance in every facet of our lives.

bo1024 3y ago
No, I think the situation is more nuanced than this. Why do the people at the school have providers who only accept gmail? Because some extremely technical people who understand exactly what they’re doing have led the web further and further into platform lock-in, and others go along with it.
OkayPhysicist 3y ago
Frankly, examples like GP's are a compelling argument for professional licensure for software developers, because "only accepting gmail addresses as valid emails" should be considered professional malpractice.
- arp242 3y ago
  The effect will be marginal; it will just create a huge administrative bonanza, and the number of times where it will be used (i.e. software devs being "disbarred") will be few enough that it won't matter much in practice.
  - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
    The purpose of licensure is that it effectively allows the licensed individual to hold themselves hostage in a negotiation. Without licenses, Management says "add feature X", and even though you know feature X is evil personified, you look at the pros and cons of implementing it or not, and you end up with "my professional conscience" vs "getting fired". With licenses, you end up with "every future job" vs "this job" which is quite a bit more balanced in the direction of "don't add evil feature X".

pierat 3y ago

Taken to the logical conclusion, this public school (which your child is compulsed to attend)is requiring you to agree to a private company's ToS and extreme data exfiltration and arbitration clauses, so your child can be fed. Even worse yet, by refusing to get a google account, you could be tried for child abuse, since the school won't feed your child if you won't agree to google's ToS. I really hope you didn't acquiesce. And I hope you hired an attorney to fight these laughable and horrific abuses.