4 ms·

Because it can be obtained for free.

by PrimeMcFly 3y ago

robertlagrant 3y ago
If that's all it takes, why not just use public domain things? They're actually free.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  Because I want the other thing I can get for free. Think of it like this. If you are flicking through channels on your TV, you might find something halfway interesting that you want to watch, and so you do. But you never would have paid for it. Same thing with piracy. You might check something out of curiosity or boredom, but never would have paid $20 for it, and me personally, I'm not going to 'rent' something that requires DRM to play, and don't want to own it on physical media, so piracy is the clear choice. This is pretty normal human behavior, and I see no ethical issue with it. There is only the fallacy of the lost sale as a flimsy counter-argument, the rest is greed and lies.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    It's greedy to want things for free that aren't available for free. You're right that greed is normal human behaviour, but that doesn't make it okay, let alone good.
    - beej71 3y ago
      Counterpoint: greed has made Disney and others push copyright terms to damaging extremes that we all pay for. It's unethical to give them money.
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        That's not a counterpoint. It's not unethical to voluntarily pay for a luxury good. It's just a choice.
        beej71 3y ago
        I didn't say it was unethical to voluntarily pay for a luxury good. I said it was unethical to pay Disney.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        This just seems like an excuse. It's okay to steal from the people you've decided are evil? Should I start stealing VWs because of the emissions scandal?
        beej71 3y ago
        I'm not talking about stealing anything. But if you find VW to be an evil company and you want a Golf, you should absolutely build your own copy a Golf and not give VW a cent.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        Fair enough - in the same vein, it's not magically okay for you to consume Disney products just because you don't like Disney. Put on your own play.
        beej71 3y ago
        But now we're just talking the ease of making a copy, which I don't think is part of the law.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        I agree that ease of making a copy isn't relevant. If a company spend $50m on making a movie, and it's totally legal to make free copies (or charge $5 a copy), companies will stop making movies. This seems self-evidently bad; can you explain why it's not?
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      > It's greedy to want things for free that aren't available for free. But they are available for free. I can go to any torrent site and get anything I want. You don't think they should be available for free, but that's quite a different argument. > You're right that greed is normal human behaviour, but that doesn't make it okay, let alone good. Downloading a movie to watch on a Sunday afternoon that you would never pay for is not greed, it's curiosity more than anything. It's greed to try and punish that behavior. I'm sorry to see you've been so successfully indoctrinated.
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        A Porsche is available for free if you're willing to steal one. After all, it's curiosity more than anything.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        lol, those 'you wouldn't steal a car' propaganda commercials really had an effect on you, didn't they? If I steal a Porsche, I'm depriving someone of a Porsche. If I download Ace Ventura, I'm not depriving anyone of anything.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        Your reasoning isn't scoped to that, though. You're just talking about how you should have things if you want them. If you want to be more specific, then say things that aren't so easily countered.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        > Your reasoning isn't scoped to that, though. Yes, it was! The context was very clearly piracy. > If you want to be more specific, then say things that aren't so easily countered. Nah. Context was clear. You simply have no argument and made an argument in bad faith. In any event, now that you do understand the context, surely you have a counter? Or did those MPAA commercials not provide you your next line?

Because it can be obtained for free.

robertlagrant 3y ago

If that's all it takes, why not just use public domain things? They're actually free.

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
Because I want the other thing I can get for free. Think of it like this. If you are flicking through channels on your TV, you might find something halfway interesting that you want to watch, and so you do. But you never would have paid for it. Same thing with piracy. You might check something out of curiosity or boredom, but never would have paid $20 for it, and me personally, I'm not going to 'rent' something that requires DRM to play, and don't want to own it on physical media, so piracy is the clear choice. This is pretty normal human behavior, and I see no ethical issue with it. There is only the fallacy of the lost sale as a flimsy counter-argument, the rest is greed and lies.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  It's greedy to want things for free that aren't available for free. You're right that greed is normal human behaviour, but that doesn't make it okay, let alone good.
  - beej71 3y ago
    Counterpoint: greed has made Disney and others push copyright terms to damaging extremes that we all pay for. It's unethical to give them money.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      That's not a counterpoint. It's not unethical to voluntarily pay for a luxury good. It's just a choice.
      - beej71 3y ago
        I didn't say it was unethical to voluntarily pay for a luxury good. I said it was unethical to pay Disney.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        This just seems like an excuse. It's okay to steal from the people you've decided are evil? Should I start stealing VWs because of the emissions scandal?
        beej71 3y ago
        I'm not talking about stealing anything. But if you find VW to be an evil company and you want a Golf, you should absolutely build your own copy a Golf and not give VW a cent.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        Fair enough - in the same vein, it's not magically okay for you to consume Disney products just because you don't like Disney. Put on your own play.
        beej71 3y ago
        But now we're just talking the ease of making a copy, which I don't think is part of the law.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        I agree that ease of making a copy isn't relevant. If a company spend $50m on making a movie, and it's totally legal to make free copies (or charge $5 a copy), companies will stop making movies. This seems self-evidently bad; can you explain why it's not?
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    > It's greedy to want things for free that aren't available for free. But they are available for free. I can go to any torrent site and get anything I want. You don't think they should be available for free, but that's quite a different argument. > You're right that greed is normal human behaviour, but that doesn't make it okay, let alone good. Downloading a movie to watch on a Sunday afternoon that you would never pay for is not greed, it's curiosity more than anything. It's greed to try and punish that behavior. I'm sorry to see you've been so successfully indoctrinated.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      A Porsche is available for free if you're willing to steal one. After all, it's curiosity more than anything.
      - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        lol, those 'you wouldn't steal a car' propaganda commercials really had an effect on you, didn't they? If I steal a Porsche, I'm depriving someone of a Porsche. If I download Ace Ventura, I'm not depriving anyone of anything.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        Your reasoning isn't scoped to that, though. You're just talking about how you should have things if you want them. If you want to be more specific, then say things that aren't so easily countered.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        > Your reasoning isn't scoped to that, though. Yes, it was! The context was very clearly piracy. > If you want to be more specific, then say things that aren't so easily countered. Nah. Context was clear. You simply have no argument and made an argument in bad faith. In any event, now that you do understand the context, surely you have a counter? Or did those MPAA commercials not provide you your next line?