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Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending
- Klaster_1 3y agoCan the price pressure reduce the amount of cars overall after IC cars are outlawed?
- tonyedgecombe 3y agoICE cars won't be outlawed if there isn't an acceptable alternative. It would be political suicide.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> ICE cars won't be outlawed if there isn't an acceptable alternative Not explicitly. But new gas stations will stop being built [1]. For-hire cars mandated to go electric [2]. Parking spaces reserved for electric cars only. Perhaps HOAs that ban the running of combustion engines on their streets. Nudges here and there that make it more annoying and expensive to own a gas car. [1] https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-11/california-cities-ban-new-gas-stations-amid-climate-change https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-11/californ... [2] https://www.nyc.gov/assets/tlc/downloads/pdf/green_rides_initiative_%20with_certifications_8_14_23.pdf https://www.nyc.gov/assets/tlc/downloads/pdf/green_rides_ini...
- georgeplusplus 3y agoEurope and California are already moving full steam ahead without a plan. Anything for that sweet chinese money. EVs benefit china. Period. Gavin Newsom met with Xi recently. Probably to collect his paycheck for enacting the law to phase out ICEs by 2030. Why cant democrat supporters connect the dots.
- otteromkram 3y ago> Why cant democrat supporters connect the dots. Because there's no dots to connect. Related: Dems probably know what a question mark is and where it should be used.
- georgeplusplus 3y agoYou don't see the mass migration of over 10 million people as troublesome? You don't see the surging crime in cities as a problem? You don't see inflation as a problem? Do you live under a bridge? How about these for questions. Democrats have their heads in the sand on these issues. We are a bleeding lamb, it's no coincidence Russia and Iran made military moves because we are W E A K. Maybe it is a coincidence to you. Democrats seem more concerned with letting trans men compete un women sports than any of them above.
- Welmoto 3y agoGermany is pushing for ev too and Germany main industry is cars. We have bmw, VW, Mercedes etc here. A lot of people I personally know work for bmw. Your conspiracy doesn't make sense. No German politican would ever ty to hurt the German automotive sector. And we don't have that many it people we have a ton of German engineers
- georgeplusplus 3y agoAll economic signs in the USA are pointing towards depression. I live abroad and where i live wven they can see how weak we are but my American democrat friends back home somehow dont see it. They think the way the world still sees us is and favorable and we project a strong image abroad. The world sees what's happening with the uncontained migration, crime surges in the city, and with the inflation and they see weakness. How you can be living in this and not see it is beyond my rational. Perhaps its the same dunning Kruger effect is making you not be able to see that your politicians have sold you out your car industry to foreign entities that include an alliance of Russia China and Iran. Your auto industry cannot compete. I have lived in China they are so far ahead of the EV market its a joke what's more, they own a monopoly on lithium production who do you think we will come begging to with an ev transition. It's sad. I hope you can start to question the madness these dirty politicians sold us out for.
- TerrifiedMouse 3y ago> Your conspiracy doesn't make sense. No German politican would ever ty to hurt the German automotive sector. The same German politicians that shutdown nuclear reactors making Germany more dependent on fossil fuels like coal?
- ben_w 3y agoNeither coal nor nuclear is part of the German automotive sector.
- Taiwan_No_1 3y ago[dead]
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y agoProbably not in a democracy. A huge number of people like owning cars. If there is price pressure from a law, there will be massive political pressure to change that law.
- slaw 3y agoMost people don't like to own cars. Pay, insure, park, repair. It is just necessity to move from point A to point B.
- paulryanrogers 3y agoSadly untrue in large parts of the US. Often it becomes an extension of ones identity. To not have one is a clear signal you're too poor or too 'city'. (Having the wrong one is similarly troublesome for ones social life.)
- slaw 3y agoI am just a software developer and I don't know a single person who thinks car is a status symbol of any kind. Private jets and yachts are.
- daedalus_j 3y agoPerhaps you're high enough up the ladder that those are simply the people you know and interact with? Move higher up and "personal city on the moon" becomes the status symbol. Move lower down and it's still cars. What type of car, and what modifications it has, etc, become quite important talking points. A recent SMBC seems to me to explain it well: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/esteem-2 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/esteem-2
- gottorf 3y ago> A recent SMBC seems to me to explain it well: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/esteem-2 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/esteem-2 The bonus panel is hilarious!
- slaw 3y agoWhat is blocking import of EVs from China. I saw 3000-4000 RMB ~ $400 electric scooters in China that I would use in US instead of a car for local trips.
- tpmoney 3y agoI suspect a combination of safety standards and an unwillingness for the Chinese companies to deal with the process of certifying or complying, a local hesitation given the well known problems with Chinese electric bike and scooter battery charging and fires, and current ongoing global political concerns that have the US and US companies reevaluating how strongly tied to China they want to be.
- timschmidt 3y agohttps://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car
- pornel 3y agoMG, Nio, BYD cars manage to pass UK and Australian safety tests, and end up with very good scores. US has EV incentives explicitly tied to domestic production, so it's about industry protectionism. US probably doesn't want a repeat of what happened to Detroit industry after Japanese imports.
- userinanother 3y agoSafety standards, lawsuits and a generally unfavorable trade environment
- sseagull 3y agoThe headline basically says it all. My 15 year old car is starting to get some issues so I was browsing some EVs. They are literally twice as expensive as a comparable ICE car, even after tax incentives. With interest rates where they are, 22k vs 44k is a huge difference. They are just unaffordable for a lot of people. (Also, was looking for a sedan. They don’t seem to make a lot of EV sedans, and I find the hatchback type ones kinda ugly. That’s just me though)
- ZeroGravitas 3y agoYou should really be comparing TCO rather than sticker price. Probably won't totally flip the calculation in your specifically cited case but will still make a serious difference.
- slaw 3y ago15 years is too early to give up on a car unless it is corrosion. Learn how to fix your car yourself. Parts are inexpensive only labor is like $300-$500/real working hour.
- yourusername 3y agoDepends on how much you drive. at 30k km a year the average car is done after 15 years and 450k km.
- sseagull 3y agoWow, it is not driven nearly that much. It has < 120k miles on it :) But it did spend its first 6 or 7 years in Western NY, with snowy, salty roads a good chunk of the year. There definitely is some rusty spots and corrosion. I think people who do stuff like fix their own cars (and lots of other things) very much underestimate the time it takes to acquire the knowledge, and how much intuition they've unknowingly built up while they did it. Replacing a part is relatively easy, knowing what part to replace is its own skill. So cars is one of those things I will happily hand off to someone else to fix, while I focus on home repair or something.
- linuxftw 3y agoThe originally announced F150 lightening price was under $40k, and there were also some incentives IIRC. The cheapest ones are about $60k now. A lot of people were interested in the truck for the lower $30k's, but much more than that is a non-starter. The marketing for these vehicles is also laughable. Instead of advertising real-world range for a 10k towing load, they talk about how it can power your blender. The mustang mach-e is another flop. A lot of people rushed out to buy one during the supply chain crunch, values shot up, now Ford can't give them away.
- busterarm 3y agoYeah but Ford just cancelled F150 lightning orders in the US & Canada again. How many production shutdowns are they going to deal with for quality issues per year? Also it's weird to be pushing EVs in areas where they aren't wanted (trucks, motorcycles). Harley Davidson just reported that their electric bike model sold 69 units globally in the last quarter of 2022...That's basically nothing. Their yearly goals are like 500 units.
- linuxftw 3y agoFor $35k, I would want an F150 lightning with 4wd and 4 doors. That would be a great value, and while not as capable as a non-electric truck, it would fit all of my needs. For $60k, I'll just buy a real truck.
- busterarm 3y agoCan you even find Ford trucks for $60k anymore? Ford just raised prices _again_ on top of their dealers already adding insane markups without the brand curtailing that behavior. Plus everything they deliver to dealers seems to be optioned out the ass to the point where everything is $80-120k. My truck-shopping friends (that being most people here in the southeast) are all swearing off Ford and buying used from other brands for way cheaper. heck, Scotty Kilmer JUST did a video on this...
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- userinanother 3y agoEvs are great fun toys that I would absolutely recommend to anyone that can afford them and lives in a 2 car household. They are not currently an acceptable replacement for an ICE car in the United States due to infrastructure problems. I would bet we need 10-15 years to get that to an acceptable state
- busterarm 3y agoAfter seeing the damage from a few EV fires, I don't think we're anywhere near proper insurance underwriting of EVs...both for the vehicles themselves and also surrounding property damage. Tbh, I wouldn't want an EV parked anywhere within 500 feet of my house. And seeing $41k dent repair bills for the Rivian or a non-covered Tesla battery replacement for driving in heavy rain...Well, I really don't think the masses are ready. The fact that regulators are pushing so hard for EVs is steering us into a crisis in the near future, I think.
- larperdoodle 3y agoI live in a one car household and it's been perfectly fine, including our yearly roadtrip driving up and around places like Banff in Canada and down the coast to San Francisco. And that's not a Tesla either, it's just with a cheap Chevy Bolt I got for 25k.