3 ms·

> There's definitely a significant chunk of the population that does miss Yugoslavia and bratstvo i jedinstvo. In my experience, the sentiment is actually stron

by vasac 3y ago

> There's definitely a significant chunk of the population that does miss Yugoslavia and bratstvo i jedinstvo. In my experience, the sentiment is actually strongest in Bosnia, which makes sense, as it is the most mixed of the successor states and also the one that suffered the most from petty nationalism. I'm from Bosnia, and while there are people who pay lip service to the idea that they miss Yugoslavia, in 95% of cases, these same people didn't vote for political parties that wanted to preserve Yugoslavia. Instead, they voted for nationalistic parties. Now that they've been disappointed by those nationalistic dreams (as it turns out, politicians/criminals don't actually care who they are robbing), they say they miss Yugoslavia. However, they still vote for the same political parties that advocated for independence. > I agree with you on the ethnic Albanians though - they never made sense in Yugoslavia, the state of the South Slavs. Kosovo should be part of Albania and the Serbs need to shut up about it already. Kosovo was part of Serbia before Yugoslavia came into existence, and it will be again. Last time, it took us a few hundred years to return; this time, it will happen much faster.

jakupovic 3y ago
[flagged]
- vasac 3y ago
  I would be happy if you could settle on one version of history and maintain it for at least a century. It seems that historical narratives keep changing with each era. One version was disseminated during the Ottoman occupation, another under Austrian rule, then another during the First and Second Yugoslavia, and now, it appears we have a new version after the war. I hope this is the final one. Have you figured out whether you are Bosniaks or Bosnians? Are Serbs in Bosnia just Serbs, or has the Serbian Orthodox Church classified them differently? By the way, regarding Bosnian kings, here's[0] the first Bosnian king, Stephen Tvrtko I, who claimed to be the heir of Serbia's Nemanjić dynasty. According to the same Wikipedia article: > In early 1377, Tvrtko successfully plotted with the Travunians to take over Trebinje, Konavli, and Dračevica, marking his final conquests of the Serbian lands. So, it appears that Serbs lived in that area long before Bosnia had its first king (and we're still living there - I'm from Trebinje). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tvrtko_I_of_Bosnia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tvrtko_I_of_Bosnia
  - arp242 3y ago
    Who cares about the history? What matters is people who are alive today. And clearly the Kosovar people alive today don't want to be part of Serbia, and that's the end of it. No one wins with this endless reaching back in to history. if you search long and hard enough everyone can find some valid (well, "valid") reason to be upset with pretty much everyone else. And all about some people who are long dead.
  - jakupovic 3y ago
    >Have you figured out whether you are Bosniaks or Bosnians? Bosnians in Bosnia called themselves and still do Bosnians but do omit the "dobri" these days. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njani https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njani The term good Bosnian (dobri Bošnjanin / добри Бошњанин) was not a geographical reference for the inhabitants along the Bosna River, but it was referred to the population of the entire medieval Bosnia, regardless of religion, which can be seen in various charters of the 14th and 15th centuries during the reign of ban Stjepan II Kotromanić, ban Tvrtko I Kotromanić, King Stjepan Ostoja, etc. In these charters, Bosnian rulers mention good Bosniaks as witnesses.[4 > In early 1377, Tvrtko successfully plotted with the Travunians to take over Trebinje, Konavli, and Dračevica, marking his final conquests of the Serbian lands. This is exactly what I said, Bosnian King Tvrtko, you omit the part of Tvrtko being Bosnian, living in Bosnia speaking Bosnian language conquered Serbia. Do Bosnians get Serbia now?
    - vasac 3y ago
      Bosnians can refer to themselves in various ways. They have identified as Bosnians, Bosniaks (depending on the extent of their territorial claims), Turks, Muslims, Bogomils, and more over time. I don't particularly mind; believe in whatever you wish. However, it's somewhat ironic to instruct others to learn history when your own identity only stabilized around 20 years ago. No one, except for you, has mentioned 'dobri.' Furthermore, you seem to have overlooked the fact that Tvrtko considered himself the heir of the Nemanjić dynasty, which was Serbian. Interestingly, you also assert that Tvrtko conquered a part of Serbia, specifically Trebinje, which is now part of Bosnia. I'm not sure this supports your argument very effectively.

by vasac 3y ago

jakupovic 3y ago

[flagged]

vasac 3y ago
I would be happy if you could settle on one version of history and maintain it for at least a century. It seems that historical narratives keep changing with each era. One version was disseminated during the Ottoman occupation, another under Austrian rule, then another during the First and Second Yugoslavia, and now, it appears we have a new version after the war. I hope this is the final one. Have you figured out whether you are Bosniaks or Bosnians? Are Serbs in Bosnia just Serbs, or has the Serbian Orthodox Church classified them differently? By the way, regarding Bosnian kings, here's[0] the first Bosnian king, Stephen Tvrtko I, who claimed to be the heir of Serbia's Nemanjić dynasty. According to the same Wikipedia article: > In early 1377, Tvrtko successfully plotted with the Travunians to take over Trebinje, Konavli, and Dračevica, marking his final conquests of the Serbian lands. So, it appears that Serbs lived in that area long before Bosnia had its first king (and we're still living there - I'm from Trebinje). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tvrtko_I_of_Bosnia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tvrtko_I_of_Bosnia
- arp242 3y ago
  Who cares about the history? What matters is people who are alive today. And clearly the Kosovar people alive today don't want to be part of Serbia, and that's the end of it. No one wins with this endless reaching back in to history. if you search long and hard enough everyone can find some valid (well, "valid") reason to be upset with pretty much everyone else. And all about some people who are long dead.
- jakupovic 3y ago
  >Have you figured out whether you are Bosniaks or Bosnians? Bosnians in Bosnia called themselves and still do Bosnians but do omit the "dobri" these days. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njani https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njani The term good Bosnian (dobri Bošnjanin / добри Бошњанин) was not a geographical reference for the inhabitants along the Bosna River, but it was referred to the population of the entire medieval Bosnia, regardless of religion, which can be seen in various charters of the 14th and 15th centuries during the reign of ban Stjepan II Kotromanić, ban Tvrtko I Kotromanić, King Stjepan Ostoja, etc. In these charters, Bosnian rulers mention good Bosniaks as witnesses.[4 > In early 1377, Tvrtko successfully plotted with the Travunians to take over Trebinje, Konavli, and Dračevica, marking his final conquests of the Serbian lands. This is exactly what I said, Bosnian King Tvrtko, you omit the part of Tvrtko being Bosnian, living in Bosnia speaking Bosnian language conquered Serbia. Do Bosnians get Serbia now?
  - vasac 3y ago
    Bosnians can refer to themselves in various ways. They have identified as Bosnians, Bosniaks (depending on the extent of their territorial claims), Turks, Muslims, Bogomils, and more over time. I don't particularly mind; believe in whatever you wish. However, it's somewhat ironic to instruct others to learn history when your own identity only stabilized around 20 years ago. No one, except for you, has mentioned 'dobri.' Furthermore, you seem to have overlooked the fact that Tvrtko considered himself the heir of the Nemanjić dynasty, which was Serbian. Interestingly, you also assert that Tvrtko conquered a part of Serbia, specifically Trebinje, which is now part of Bosnia. I'm not sure this supports your argument very effectively.